War in Ukraine

[LouderVol]

We were the ones that orchestrated a coup in 2013. THAT is the reason behind NATO expansion.

You mean the coup by the president who was elected after he ran on ties to the west, and then jettisoned that plan to side with Russia. The same president who was able to order up a Russian helicopter and SF evac from his mansion. and it just so happened that russia was ready to invade Donbas and take over Crimea within a couple days of the American coup? That's quiet the coincidence. Weird that everything around the coup was set up to favor Russia....

 

[LouderVol]

And how effective are those guns going to ultimately be? I think what is being proven is that unless you are equally armed - planes, bombs, etc.....it doesn't really matter; especially when facing a foe who has no problem with the death of innocents and the complete destruction of entire cities.

Seems absurd to use this as a way of supporting 2a.

Yeah I remember the great afghanny armored and air forces. They really did a number on us....vietnam too.

It did make our invasion of Iraq so much easier that they had so few tanks....

 

[LouderVol]

I paid $4.39 at the pump in GA while traveling yesterday. Time for this admin to understand THIS is why we need to drill and be energy independent. Continue to develop renewables as well and understand it’s a matter of national security, but for the love of God, stop cutting our own legs out from under us to placate the fringe.

Where the eff did you find 4.39? It's still under 4 in atlanta.

 

[AM64]

Which, if this is true, then Putin sounds insane. He really might be trying to destroy everything.

I've never had the impression that any lives were important to Putin - whether Russian, Ukrainian, or anybody else. He's just a thug with power.

 

[volinbham]

Every time I hear the news mention Minsk I think of Rochelle, Rochelle.

Anyone else?

 

[85SugarVol]

Ohhhh I want one of those .

Me too. Me too.

 

[RDU VOL#14]

I am split on Afghanistan, at least in terms of the 20 year military presence. Iraq a definite no, and a likely no in Syria but it's complicated

I agree . It’s easy to look back and see how things could’ve been handled differently these past 21 years. We all need to remember what a post 9/11 world was like . We were still in shock of the images of the Twin Towers coming down, the # of lives lost, etc. There was a blood lust that we were all a part of, and when you combine that with the fear of the unknown of more potential terrorism you don’t want to be the leader that pulls out of a country that originally harbored the terrorist and the organization that was responsible for the original attack for fear of it occurring again. I don’t agree with the Nation building aspect, but I completely disagree with how the withdrawal was handled. Honestly, I don’t think we should’ve ever given up Bagram.

 

[utvolpj]

Every time I hear the news mention Minsk I think of Rochelle, Rochelle.

Anyone else?

Kramer won a Tony for that

 

[AM64]

And how effective are those guns going to ultimately be? I think what is being proven is that unless you are equally armed - planes, bombs, etc.....it doesn't really matter; especially when facing a foe who has no problem with the death of innocents and the complete destruction of entire cities.

Seems absurd to use this as a way of supporting 2a.

Because you can bomb and fire artillery all you want, but in the end the only way you capture a place is to be there. If you think at that point that arms in the hands of people who have the desire to resist aren't important, then go back and study wars in places like Vietnam and Afghanistan. In WW2 the Navy shelled, bombed, and strafed Japanese held islands for days and landing forces still met heavy resistance.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Because we were not prepared to indiscriminately murder tens of thousands of innocent civilians and bomb entire cities into oblivion......as is Putin.

Say what?

 

[Vol737]

Where the eff did you find 4.39? It's still under 4 in atlanta.

Northwest corner of GA headed into Alabama. It was premium unleaded.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Correct, a coup to replace a Russian puppet that better represented the will of the people.

And that was none of our business.

 

[kiddiedoc]

I keep seeing "entire cities being destroyed" brought up, but is there any actual evidence of this being true? All I've seen are relatively-isolated buildings/homes hit/burning/destroyed.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

We were not “ equally armed” against the English .

Or for that matter, the first incursion that took place against the Branch Davidians, the US Govt ran out of ammo.

 

[luthervol]

Say what?

we were not prepared to indiscriminately murder tens of thousands of innocent civilians and bomb entire cities into oblivion

 

[hog88]

we were not prepared to indiscriminately murder tens of thousands of innocent civilians and bomb entire cities into oblivion

We've done it in the past.

 

[LouderVol]

Northwest corner of GA headed into Alabama. It was premium unleaded.

Ok. Just looked the gas down on the corner is 4.29 for premium. Regular still below 4.

 

[luthervol]

We've done it in the past.

Japan?

 

[Velo Vol]

I keep seeing "entire cities being destroyed" brought up, but is there any actual evidence of this being true? All I've seen are relatively-isolated buildings/homes hit/burning/destroyed.

The war is still young.

 

[KB5252]

And that was none of our business.

As much our business at it was Russia's. Russia pulled the bait and switch. The people wanted something else. They appealed to the US for help and we obliged.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

So from what I'm hearing people say in this thread then there should be almost near unanimous agreement that we never should have invaded Iraq, Afghanistan and never should have gotten involved in Syria. Glad to see the majority of you realize that now.

It is also refreshing to see the softer side of people as they start to express pity and concern for the lives lost in these conflicts.

 

[AM64]

Poland. 1069 they invaded Ukraine/Kiev. 1605 to 1618 they took Moscow after they were invaded first.

France for all of like 6 months back in 1812.

Germany for about 4 years from 1941 to 1945.

Russia occupied Polish territory from 981 to 1051, 1654 to 1667 they permantately pushed their borders, including being part of the dissolution of the Polish Commonwealth in the three partitions in the late 1770s.
1939-1941, 1945-1991
Russia still occupy German territory from 1945 to the present day around Konigsberg in Eastern Prussia. Note the P. And held half the country from 45 to 91.

Acting like Russia is an innocent victim is BS or even equally at fault for the current situation. They are the biggest occupier, literally and figuratively against 2 of the three you listed, while the third lasted all of 6 months more than 200 years ago. While russias actions have lasted decades at minimum.

I'd go even further than that. Russia was the owner/operator of the Soviet Union. The USSR occupied a lot of countries - just ask the Poles and Hungarians (for starters) about that.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

It's weird seeing this level of brutality in a European country modern day. This is the kind of stuff you would expect to see in some Middle Eastern craphole or Europe during WWII.

That is war though.

Yeah, the type of stuff that the US, Israelis and Saudis would be doing in the Middle East.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Belarus and Ukraine are far more valuable to Russia than thee Baltics. They have more farmland, resources, etc. Baltics are nice but they seem like they would be more trouble for Russia than add tangible value.

I think Putin will want Belarus, Ukraine, and possibly Kazakhstan first. Maybe Moldovia as well since they are not in NATO yet.

Putin was just in Kazakhstan 2 months ago to stabilize a coup attempt and pulled out his troops in less than a week. If he really had ambitions to take it, that would have been the time.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Unfortunately, that is world history. Europe was a constant continent of wars prior to WW2 (WW1, Napoleonic Wars, 100 year war, 60 year war, 80 year war, Seven Year War, War of Austrian Succession, War of Spanish Succession, etc.). I think the state of peace is enforced by the USA right now.

George Washington told us to stay out of European affairs for that precise reason. Only trade and commerce, but not entangling alliances with any of them. European security needs to be handled by Europeans, not America.