War in Ukraine

[Rasputin_Vol]

Sure. My comments were in response to this post.....
"Vietnam vs. USA, Afghans vs USSR, Afghans vs USA"

I said something to the effect of "we were not willing to kill tens of thousands on innocent citizens and bomb entire cities into oblivion".

But had we been willing, we certainly had the means to do so. WWII is a great example of when we were willing - maybe even justifiably so.

OK, Syria, Iraq and Kosovo...

 

[allvol123]

It's weird seeing this level of brutality in a European country modern day. This is the kind of stuff you would expect to see in some Middle Eastern craphole or Europe during WWII.

That is war though.

It is war by people with a certain mindset. The mindset to enslave, every warrior does not want to enslave.

 

[DonjoVol]

Which is yet another source of concern. This gives the media an opportunity to try to salvage what they can to get Biden something in the win column.

Not only Biden but democrats as well. Notice how they are already accusing the right of being Pro Russia

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Good God, we feed and provide medicine to large swaths of the worlds population.

Oh yeah... we see how that is playing out during the pandemic. LOL... wow!

 

[KB5252]

Saddam

Saddam is a city? Saddam invaded a sovereign nation the first time, we kicked his military's arse and left.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Not only Biden but democrats as well. Notice how they are already accusing the right of being Pro Russia

Fear in 2020: COVID
Fear in 2022: Russia

 

[midnight orange]

Saddam is a city? Saddam invaded a sovereign nation the first time, we kicked his military's arse and left.

No but Najaf, Fallujah, Mosul, Basra, and Baghdad are.

 

[KB5252]

That wasn’t your first question. As for the rest if you’re so inclined, you could pick up almost any ww2 history book, review a few pages back of this thread and/or Google.

My first question was when we put a puppet in place and it doesn't go our way do we raise cities and punish civilians.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Saddam is a city? Saddam invaded a sovereign nation the first time, we kicked his military's arse and left.

We armed and supported Saddam in the 1980s and then bombed the entire country of Iraq (not just a city) in two wars.

Why are you trying to play ignorant?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

My first question was when we put a puppet in place and it doesn't go our way do we raise cities and punish civilians.

Would the Mujahedeen/Taliban count?

 

[midnight orange]

My first question was when we put a puppet in place and it doesn't go our way do we raise cities and punish civilians.

Who do you think backed Saddam’s takeover of Iraq? Trained and armed Osama bin Laden? Who is backing al Qaeda in Yemen as we speak?

 

[volkyries]

People often mistake Vietnam as a military defeat, it wasn't. The US simply wasn't willing, with good reason, to sacrifice hundreds of thousands of US soldiers for a heavily corrupt and ineffective South Vietnamese government. The NVA/Vietcong had very few real victories if any other than small skirmishes. The TET Offensive which really turned the tide of the war in terms of public opinion in the US was a strategic NVA/Vietcong "victory" but it was a military disaster for them and could have easily led to an annihilation of the NVA/Vietcong as a fighting force but the US did not take advantage of it and soon began the slow drawdown of combat.

This is 100% true. United States was NOT the War Leader, South Vietnam. The way to look at it was the United States (along with a lot of other nations in the region that helped including Thailand, Taiwan, South Korea, the Philippines, and Australia) were co-belligerents in support of the South Vietnamese regime. USA end up becoming the main fighter keeping things alive and Americans did not want to be in that position. South Vietnam was a weak and corrupt regime that could not survive without USA backing.

Vietnam was a loss/defeat no matter what you call it or try to justify it. We joined the side of the South to fight the North and they outlasted us/beat us. It doesn't matter why we pulled out or left the country, we chose to do so and our ally, the South, lost. The corruption/ineffective government in the South would not have matter if we won the war. It is true that we lost the war due to public opinion and politicans preventing the military from doing their jobs and just rolling over the North (yes, partly to keep the war contained to Vietnam and not starting open war with USSR at the time). We lost, no different than a kid losing at football and taking their ball and going home before the game is over and claiming they didn't "lose".

Do you consider Vietnam a victory on our part or a tie? Do you consider Afghanistan a defeat?

 

[Velo Vol]

 

[KB5252]

We armed and supported Saddam in the 1980s and then bombed the entire country of Iraq (not just a city) in two wars.

Why are you trying to play ignorant?

The first war we did not, we kicked his military's arse and avoided populated areas. The second war there is a different story but we didn't set out to punish/kill The people of Iraq.

 

[evillawyer]

How will the Russians post their disinformation now

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Vietnam was a loss/defeat no matter what you call it or try to justify it. We joined the side of the South to fight the North and they outlasted us/beat us. It doesn't matter why we pulled out or left the country, we chose to do so and our ally, the South, lost. The corruption/ineffective government in the South would not have matter if we won the war. It is true that we lost the war due to public opinion and politicans preventing the military from doing their jobs and just rolling over the North (yes, partly to keep the war contained to Vietnam and not starting open war with USSR at the time). We lost, no different than a kid losing at football and taking their ball and going home before the game is over and claiming they didn't "lose".

Do you consider Vietnam a victory on our part or a tie? Do you consider Afghanistan a defeat?

Long before that, Ho Chi Minh worked with the US in the 1940s as an OSS asset. We had our fingers involved in that area before thee was a north and south.

 

[Rickyvol77]

Over the last 8 years, I've been on the right side of the truth more than most people in here on this topic.

Hahahahahaha

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

The first war we did not, we kicked his military's arse and avoided populated areas. The second war there is a different story but we didn't set out to punish/kill The people of Iraq.

But it did happen though, right?

 

[volkyries]

Long before that, Ho Chi Minh worked with the US in the 1940s as an OSS asset. We had our fingers involved in that area before thee was a north and south.

Cool story, not revelant to what I was posting about though.

 

[luthervol]

OK, Syria, Iraq and Kosovo...

What about them?
I don't believe that we were willing to indiscriminately kill tens of thousands of innocent citizens while bombing entire cities into oblivion.
You're desperately trying to draw comparisons that simply are not there.
In the view of practically the entire world, Putin has clearly crossed the line.
There is nothing you can say or do that will change that.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

My first question was when we put a puppet in place and it doesn't go our way do we raise cities and punish civilians.

I just reminded myself of this. Ho Chi Minh...

 

[KB5252]

Who do you think backed Saddam’s takeover of Iraq? Trained and armed Osama bin Laden?

Iraq went our way, Saddam kept power. He was a horrible person and we had to check him because he invaded a neighbor.

Osama declared war on the US because he felt slighted by his home nation who turned to us to deal with Sadaam instead of letting him deal with it.

It's complicated and sticky for sure. But when Cuba went against us did we bomb their cities, kill them and destroy their homes?

That would be the comparable example. We dealt with it by different means.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

What about them?
I don't believe that we were willing to indiscriminately kill tens of thousands of innocent citizens while bombing entire cities into oblivion.
You're desperately trying to draw comparisons that simply are not there.
In the view of practically the entire world, Putin has clearly crossed the line.
There is nothing you can say or do that will change that.

Is this what is going on in Ukraine? Tens of thousands?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

It's complicated and sticky for sure. But when Cuba went against us did we bomb their cities, kill them and destroy their homes?

That would be the comparable example. We dealt with it by different means.

That is what would have likely happened had Kennedy given the greenlight for air support during Bay of Pigs.

 

[allvol123]

Russia going dark.

Certainly the people you would want to defend.