War in Ukraine

#13,276
#13,276
Rasputin_Vol said:
But it did happen though, right?
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Not to this extent. We didn't kill thousands, tens of thousands of civilians in a week and a half. And it certainly wasn't the goal. By virtue of Russian military strategy they set to encircle then shell the city reducing it to rubble. It's what they do/are doing.

The world didn't like what we did, but they would not have stood for us doing what Russia is currently. They are hitting cities with zero regard for life. The simple goal is to take as much of it as they can.
 
#13,278
#13,278
KB5252 said:
Not to this extent. We didn't kill thousands, tens of thousands of civilians in a week and a half. And it certainly wasn't the goal. By virtue of Russian military strategy they set to encircle then shell the city reducing it to rubble. It's what they do/are doing.

The world didn't like what we did, but they would not have stood for us doing what Russia is currently. They are hitting cities with zero regard for life. The simple goal is to take as much of it as they can.
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He is mentally ill.
 
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#13,280
#13,280
KB5252 said:
Not to this extent. We didn't kill thousands, tens of thousands of civilians in a week and a half. And it certainly wasn't the goal. By virtue of Russian military strategy they set to encircle then shell the city reducing it to rubble. It's what they do/are doing.

The world didn't like what we did, but they would not have stood for us doing what Russia is currently. They are hitting cities with zero regard for life. The simple goal is to take as much of it as they can.
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Yeah, to a much greater extent.
 
#13,283
#13,283
DonjoVol said:
Why don't we show Xi but stop buying products made in China? I bet that would work out just fine right now.

Russia and Ukraine have a messy history going back centuries. Much more recent history was the Holodomor which occurred in the 1930s in Ukraine. It's been mostly swept under the rug by mainstream press here in the U.S. and mainstream academics. It's also something the left does not like to discuss as it involved communists killing innocent civilians.

That hatred eventually led to the rise of people like Stepan Bandera and why many Ukrainians sided with Nazi Germany during World War 2. And why there are still groups and people in Ukraine who are ultranationist and have had hatred for Russians even to this day.
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Now see there? - you could have just provided that interesting take instead of numerous prodding about who Bandera was.

Democrats and their co-caucusing leftist assortment of Marxists have a long affinity for the totalauthoritarian regimes of Europe and Asia. They only lost their fondness for Russia when it was no longer the USSR. The only Marxist regime they don't openly embrace today is N.Korea; inwardly? - yeah, probably. The omelet was always more important than the 100 million eggs.

But...Nazis....NAZIS!!...they're the really evil ones. Even when they're groups within a country fighting the same old KGB Russkie who'd create the Soviet empire again with a bit of tailwind.
 
#13,285
#13,285
Rasputin_Vol said:
Yeah, to a much greater extent.
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No, we killed Innocents at a much lower rate because we didn't encircle cities and bomb the hell out of everything. We used precision guided missiles purposefully to reduce collateral damage. Too much of it happened no doubt. But tens of thousands are going to be dead in Ukraine, maybe more probably already are simply due to Russian war philosophy, encircle, kill clean up.
 
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#13,288
#13,288
volkyries said:
Vietnam was a loss/defeat no matter what you call it or try to justify it. We joined the side of the South to fight the North and they outlasted us/beat us. It doesn't matter why we pulled out or left the country, we chose to do so and our ally, the South, lost. The corruption/ineffective government in the South would not have matter if we won the war. It is true that we lost the war due to public opinion and politicans preventing the military from doing their jobs and just rolling over the North (yes, partly to keep the war contained to Vietnam and not starting open war with USSR at the time). We lost, no different than a kid losing at football and taking their ball and going home before the game is over and claiming they didn't "lose".

Do you consider Vietnam a victory on our part or a tie? Do you consider Afghanistan a defeat?
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I consider Vietnam to be a lose for South Vietnam and not the United States. Even if we stayed 30 years, at some point the South Vietnamese Government would need to have developed legitimacy with is people.
 
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#13,291
#13,291
KB5252 said:
Yes, are you not paying attention?
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luthervol said:
Yes.
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Not even the NYT is claiming tens of thousands killed. You need to turn off whatever media sources you are using.

Reports of civilian casualties rise in Ukraine, but exact counts remain uncertain.

The United Nations said that 227 civilians had been killed and 525 injured between Feb. 24, when the invasion began, and March 1, but has noted that its numbers are likely undercounts.
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The United States can kill that many in a wedding party in one afternoon.
 
#13,293
#13,293
Rasputin_Vol said:
Not even the NYT is claiming tens of thousands killed. You need to turn off whatever media sources you are using.

Reports of civilian casualties rise in Ukraine, but exact counts remain uncertain.



The United States can kill that many in a wedding party in one afternoon.
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BreakdownFatalitiesSourceTOTAL14,000 killedUkrainian governmentCivilians3,393 killed (312 foreign)United NationsUAF, NGU and volunteer forces4,641 killedMuseum of Military HistoryDPR and LPR forces5,772 killedUnited Nations & DPR
 
#13,295
#13,295
KB5252 said:
Iraq went our way, Saddam kept power. He was a horrible person and we had to check him because he invaded a neighbor.

Osama declared war on the US because he felt slighted by his home nation who turned to us to deal with Sadaam instead of letting him deal with it.

It's complicated and sticky for sure. But when Cuba went against us did we bomb their cities, kill them and destroy their homes?

That would be the comparable example. We dealt with it by different means.
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So yes.
 
#13,299
#13,299
luthervol said:
Sure. My comments were in response to this post.....
"Vietnam vs. USA, Afghans vs USSR, Afghans vs USA"

I said something to the effect of "we were not willing to kill tens of thousands on innocent citizens and bomb entire cities into oblivion".

But had we been willing, we certainly had the means to do so. WWII is a great example of when we were willing - maybe even justifiably so.
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Dance monkey, dance.
 
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#13,300
#13,300
Iraq Body Count

Looks like the US led coalition killed around 15,000-16,000 people directly over the 14 years we were in Iraq with almost 1/2 of those being during the first year of fighting/invasion. Russia seems on target to be considerable more than at this point.
 
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