War in Ukraine

[landscapingvol]

Yeah, to a much greater extent.

Y'all are also overlooking a couple of very important details in the those numbers. The US wasn't the only military group conducting attacks in Vietnam in both the North and South. The Vietcong carried out hundreds of attacks on civilian areas in the form of bombings on civilian targets killing thousands and injuring tens of thousands that are included in those numbers. You also are forgetting that the NVA openly invaded and attacked supporters of ARVN which heavily inflated those numbers. Did the US attack civilian areas in the North? Yes and they shouldn't have but those attacks were very limited and not continued after they were halted. You simply cannot compare the two; technology has changed, tactics have changed, and acceptable losses have changed. Vietnam ended 50 years ago.

 

[landscapingvol]

Not even the NYT is claiming tens of thousands killed. You need to turn off whatever media sources you are using.

Reports of civilian casualties rise in Ukraine, but exact counts remain uncertain.



The United States can kill that many in a wedding party in one afternoon.

The NYT has a history of being on the wrong side of history and facts in general, see the Nazis in WW2

 

[85SugarVol]

lol....They were armed with more than guns protected by 2A.....are you trying to prove my point.
But please, let's not let this move to a 2A debate.

It’s not so much the rifle, but the free man wielding it.

But make no mistake - the rifle plays an important role.

 

[hog88]

Not to this extent. We didn't kill thousands, tens of thousands of civilians in a week and a half. And it certainly wasn't the goal. By virtue of Russian military strategy they set to encircle then shell the city reducing it to rubble. It's what they do/are doing.

The world didn't like what we did, but they would not have stood for us doing what Russia is currently. They are hitting cities with zero regard for life. The simple goal is to take as much of it as they can.

That’s the way you should fight a war if your intent is to win. Give the military and objective and GTF out of the way.

 

[landscapingvol]

That’s the way you should fight a war if your intent is to win. Give the military and objective and GTF out of the way.

Unfortunately you are correct

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

President of Russia (@KremlinRussia_E) / Twitter

WOW!! This can't be a real account because there is a tweet from 2 hours ago looks like. But then again it has a blue check.

 

[volkyries]

I consider Vietnam to be a lose for South Vietnam and not the United States. Even if we stayed 30 years, at some point the South Vietnamese Government would need to have developed legitimacy with is people.

If we didn't lose then what did we do...achieve our goals and leave South Vietnam? Our reason to be there was to prevent the spread of communism, was that accomplished? Doesn't matter about South Vietnamese govt., we were fighting and left when we realized we were not going to win and didn't have the politic stomach to do so. We were defeated. Were Russian's defeated in Afghanistan? Were we?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

The NYT has a history of being on the wrong side of history and facts in general, see the Nazis in WW2

They were quoting what the UN was reporting.

 

[PEPPERJAX]

WOW!! This can't be a real account because there is a tweet from 2 hours ago looks like. But then again it has a blue check.

I am not sure if the account is legit or not. Located this from a quick google search. Shame on Twitter if he does.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

BreakdownFatalitiesSourceTOTAL14,000 killedUkrainian governmentCivilians3,393 killed (312 foreign)United NationsUAF, NGU and volunteer forces4,641 killedMuseum of Military HistoryDPR and LPR forces5,772 killedUnited Nations & DPR

Link?

 

[Velo Vol]

Coming from Bolton, I'm not sure I can believe this or not. I'm actually 50/50 on this.

Did Trump ever say one good thing about NATO? Just about every time he mentioned it, it was to complain about the other nations not paying their "dues," as if it's a country club.

 

[85SugarVol]

Because we were not prepared to indiscriminately murder tens of thousands of innocent civilians and bomb entire cities into oblivion......as is Putin.

This is true. Thankfully.

 

[Matt2496]

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I am not sure if the account is legit or not. Located this from a quick google search. Shame on Twitter if he does.

It takes a lot to shock me, but you managed to do it if this is legit.

 

[luthervol]

Dance monkey, dance.

lol.........Pull your feet out of the concrete, ponder the significance of shadows, and dream of the day you will be able to see color.

As always, absolutely nothing you said contradicted anything I said.

 

[Hunerwadel]

President of Russia (@KremlinRussia_E) / Twitter

That is an interesting office Putin is setting in. It seems very cramped, what walls we can see are bare, no carpet on the floor and a metal door. He may be in some type of bunker.

 

[Ttucke11]

It takes a lot to shock me, but you managed to do it if this is legit.

Other sites I frequent say it's legit. Ban Donald Trump and allow Putin to stay on. What an unbiased platform.

 

[luthervol]

That’s the way you should fight a war if your intent is to win. Give the military and objective and GTF out of the way.

That would all depend on the definition of winning.
Does anyone actually think Putin or Russia is coming out of this a winner? Hell no.
Will his military win? Hell yes.

 

[MontyPython]

Images of Russian army struggles show a ‘rush to failure’ in Ukraine, experts say

Excerpts...

The first week of Russia's invasion of Ukraine does not appear to have gone to plan.

Russia's attempts at a fast-paced assault haven't brought its forces inside Kyiv, the capital and the seat of the Western-leaning government the Kremlin appears intent on removing. Instead, the strategy has stretched supply lines and morale to a breaking point, while Russian tanks and military equipment have, at times, gotten stuck in mud or run out of gas.

That's the verdict of government officials and Russian military experts. It's also the picture painted by a flood of videos shared on social media, as the world watches the war and wonders how it appears to have started off quite so badly for the Kremlin...

"The Russian leadership actually believed the things they've said about the Ukrainians and didn't think they would put up a resistance," said Edmonds, now a senior analyst at CNA, a military think tank.

"Because of that and because they thought the war wouldn't be popular, they kept the scope of the invasion secret, even from the military, until the very last days."

Though Russian forces are now beginning to reorganize and have had successes in the southern part of the country, even capturing the strategic city of Kherson on Thursday, experts believe that the Russian military is struggling because it deviated from the war it had trained to fight...

The large-scale strategic exercises Russia conducted just before its invasion — and which it maintained was the reason it had moved so many troops to the borders of its democratic neighbor — appeared designed to counter an offensive from the United States and its NATO allies.
The invasion of Ukraine is a different type of conflict, forcing Russian forces to create long logistical lines that they have not trained to maintain and also placing a greater reliance on conscripted soldiers, despite their push to move away from a drafted military, said Mark Cancian, a retired Marine colonel who studies Russia’s military as a senior adviser at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, a Washington think tank.

Conscripts tend to be younger, less motivated and poorly trained, Cancian said. The Russian government has maintained conscription after recent military reforms as it believes it remains a civic duty for ordinary citizens.

"About a third of the army are conscripts, two-thirds are what they call a 'contract,' we call them 'volunteers,'" he added. "I'm surprised to see so many conscripts in Ukraine because there are limitations on their use outside of Russia."

It may be a surprise on the ground as well. Russia tried to push out its military forces in a lighter and more mobile way, a senior Western administration official said. While they moved quickly, they did not carry much with them, which meant they were less able to support themselves in a more protracted conflict.

The lack of planning and a "just drive down the road and see what happens kind of approach," has brought a lot of these challenges to light, Edmonds said.

"It appears that a mix-up in the logistics has inadvertently brought a lot of the conscripts to the front," he said, calling Russia's early strategy "a rush to failure."

Other experts outside the U.S. agreed, expressing their surprise that this was not the well-oiled, well-organized machine that Western analysts had expected when observing how Russia had honed its armed forces over the last decade in Syria or at Ukraine's border.

Instead, the world was seeing reports of young Russian conscripts captured en masse by Ukrainian forces without appearing to have been briefed by their officers, Keir Giles, the research director of the Conflict Studies Research Centre in London, said.

"The early stages of the campaign were reminiscent of the Russian army of almost 30 years ago," Giles said. "There were dismal echoes of the isolated units that pushed into the center of Grozny in Chechnya, without knowing where they were going, what they were doing, or what was awaiting them and dying horribly as a result."

 

[KB5252]

Not even the NYT is claiming tens of thousands killed. You need to turn off whatever media sources you are using.

Reports of civilian casualties rise in Ukraine, but exact counts remain uncertain.



The United States can kill that many in a wedding party in one afternoon.

Because there are no observers there to count or estimate. They've shelled apartment buildings, homes and business where people are taking refuge. The counts are surely in the thousands if not tens of thousands based on the destruction I'm seeing it's absolutely possible if not probable.

 

[AM64]

Long before that, Ho Chi Minh worked with the US in the 1940s as an OSS asset. We had our fingers involved in that area before thee was a north and south.

What we call Vietnam was divided long before Ho was ever a factor. What Ho started was a War of Northern Aggression.

 

[luthervol]

Link?

How many have died in Ukraine so far? Estimated deaths of soldiers and civilians
Thousands of people are believed to have died in the past week as a result of the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

However, on March 2, Ukraine’s State Emergency Service said it believed that a total of more than 2,000 civilians have died in a week of war with Russia.

 

[MontyPython]

How they work: Czech hedgehogs


'Hedgehogs' v tanks, as Kyiv braces for Russian onslaught

 

[KB5252]

So yes.

My point from the very beginning is we don't invade, encircle then bomb into oblivion cities that elected a government we didn't approve of.

That is exactly what is happening in cities across Ukraine. The situations that led to war were different, as they all are, and we took steps to limit civilian casualties when possible, in many cases took casualties to ensure we killed as few Innocents as possible.

What's happening in Russia is much different. The point is to kill as many as possible, whether they be civilian or military.

 

[AM64]

That is an interesting office Putin is setting in. It seems very cramped, what walls we can see are bare, no carpet on the floor and a metal door. He may be in some type of bunker.

Really nice desk, though. Way too clean. Hate people with clean desks - always associated a clean desk with an empty mind.