War in Ukraine

[luthervol]

None of these deaths are acceptable. It didn't have to go this way. But this isn't going to be anywhere near the levels reached in the Middle East.

But are you calling for a cease fire? For Russia to stop? For Russia to change tactics?
Are you claiming that Russia (Putin specifically) is wrong in what they have done or how they have chosen to do it?

 

[RavinDave]

This wasn't a sloop named the John B by any chance?

No but we had our cool team jerseys that said Blown Away.

 

[landscapingvol]

It doesn’t matter. We install puppets, don’t like the puppet we installed, raze cities and kill innocents. It’s a difference without a distinction. It doesn’t seem like Putin is targeting civilians but I don’t know. Putin is a sociopath just like our leaders. None of them care about civilian deaths unless they can profit from it. I would not be surprised to find out that most of our leaders and nato leaders are long on energy commodities.

Lord have mercy we haven't razed a city since WW2, that is just sheer lunacy again on your part but even that was largely due to poor technology at the time. Bomb sights were ineffective at best and terrible at worst so they bombed "areas" hoping to hit their target within that area. You are not sure if Putin is targeting civilians when entire apartment complexes are destroyed? The reaches some of you take to justify invading Ukraine is amusing. "The US firebombed Dresden".

 

[volkyries]

Not that I support US intervention, but Ho Ch Minh did expect Truman to support him in their fight for an independent Viet Nam but when that didn't happen, he turned to the communists. I think that is where it ended up becoming a civil war that we found ourselves getting into.

There is a story about Kennedy visiting Viet Nam in the 1950s and realizing back then that it was not an easily controllable situation there.

I think Ho banked a lot on Roosevelt's plans to rid the world of colonialism - at least FDR made claims like that. Truman waffled, and we helped France (basically bankrolled their post WW2 war in Vietnam) largely because France was teetering on going communist at the time and we were buying their affections. European colonialism and patching together disparate states into countries around the globe sure did set the stage for a lot of discord.

Ho lived in Russia and studied communism for 15 years or so before returning to Vietnam to liberate it. Maybe Truman didn't support him at that point because there was little point in helping him turn Vietnam into a communist country which at that point we were clearly against after WWII.

 

[landscapingvol]

Yes, we do.

No we don't and haven't since Vietnam and even that was extremely limited. That simply is not true and hasn't been true for a long time

 

[Septic]

My point from the very beginning is we don't invade, encircle then bomb into oblivion cities that elected a government we didn't approve of.

That is exactly what is happening in cities across Ukraine. The situations that led to war were different, as they all are, and we took steps to limit civilian casualties when possible, in many cases took casualties to ensure we killed as few Innocents as possible.

What's happening in Russia is much different. The point is to kill as many as possible, whether they be civilian or military.

I obviously have no geopolitical expertise but I don't think the idea is to kill as many as possible. My guess is Putin is now of the mindset of if I can't have it, you can't have it and he's looking to just level the country. If people are there, meh. If they aren't, meh.

Either way, if and when he decides to pull out, there will be nothing left for Ukrainians to comeback to. No puppet government for the West to prop up along with lines on the map that Putin will get to re-draw.

Anyway, that's my guess.

 

[Septic]

Really nice desk, though. Way too clean. Hate people with clean desks - always associated a clean desk with an empty mind.

'tis a photo op.

He probably spends most of his time getting peed on by Russian hookers.

 

[PEPPERJAX]

'tis a photo op.

He probably spends most of his time getting peed on by Russian hookers.

At a Trump Hotel....amirite?

 

[Septic]

At a Trump Hotel....amirite?

At a trump hotel while on a zoom call with donny.

 

[AM64]

'tis a photo op.

He probably spends most of his time getting peed on by Russian hookers.

You thinking non-wood laminate top then?

 

[Septic]

You thinking non-wood laminate top then?

I'm sure there's a roll of visqueen and a couple of mops just off the stage.

 

[PEPPERJAX]

At a trump hotel while on a zoom call with donny.

Russian hoez won't be accepting rubles in the near future.

 

[Septic]

Russian hoez won't be accepting rubles in the near future.

That's for sure.

 

[landscapingvol]

Ho lived in Russia and studied communism for 15 years or so before returning to Vietnam to liberate it. Maybe Truman didn't support him at that point because there was little point in helping him turn Vietnam into a communist country which at that point we were clearly against after WWII.

Wrong President and the reason Eisenhower didn't recognize Vietnam's independence is because they were persuaded by the French to not recognize its independence following their defeat at Dien Bien Phu until after an election was held in Vietnam. That didn't occur because, again being pressured by the French, Ho Chi Minh would have won rather easily unifying Vietnam which would have been another humiliation of the French. The South Vietnamese government was then propped up by the US because it was essentially illegitimate. The North then turned to the only real World power that would recognize them in the Soviet Union along with the Chinese who was not a World power at the time. Ho Chi Minh was a Communist but not in the Stalin/Mao mold. He was more of a pragmatic nationalist and endorsed a more modern view of it. In hindsight, our fears of another member of the Iron Curtain in Southeast Asia were unfounded.

 

[Burhead]

Ukraine is preparing to launch a large scale counter offensive in the Kharkiv region in hopes of pushing Russian forces back to the border.

 

[volinbham]

 

[hog88]

Wrong President and the reason Eisenhower didn't recognize Vietnam's independence is because they were persuaded by the French to not recognize its independence following their defeat at Dien Bien Phu until after an election was held in Vietnam. That didn't occur because, again being pressured by the French, Ho Chi Minh would have won rather easily unifying Vietnam which would have been another humiliation of the French. The South Vietnamese government was then propped up by the US because it was essentially illegitimate. The North then turned to the only real World power that would recognize them in the Soviet Union along with the Chinese who was not a World power at the time. Ho Chi Minh was a Communist but not in the Stalin/Mao mold. He was more of a pragmatic nationalist and endorsed a more modern view of it. In hindsight, our fears of another member of the Iron Curtain in Southeast Asia were unfounded.

At the end of WWII Ho did reach out to Truman and was ignored.

Letter from Ho Chi Minh to President Harry Truman

 

[volkyries]

Wrong President and the reason Eisenhower didn't recognize Vietnam's independence is because they were persuaded by the French to not recognize its independence following their defeat at Dien Bien Phu until after an election was held in Vietnam. That didn't occur because, again being pressured by the French, Ho Chi Minh would have won rather easily unifying Vietnam which would have been another humiliation of the French. The South Vietnamese government was then propped up by the US because it was essentially illegitimate. The North then turned to the only real World power that would recognize them in the Soviet Union along with the Chinese who was not a World power at the time. Ho Chi Minh was a Communist but not in the Stalin/Mao mold. He was more of a pragmatic nationalist and endorsed a more modern view of it. In hindsight, our fears of another member of the Iron Curtain in Southeast Asia were unfounded.

Truman was the president when the French complained. Not until China and USSR got involved did the US care.

How the Vietnam War Ratcheted Up Under 5 U.S. Presidents

Harry Truman
State Department officials in Asia warned Harry Truman, who became president in 1945 upon Roosevelt’s death, that French rule of Vietnam would lead to “bloodshed and unrest.” But Truman did not share his predecessor’s anti-colonialism and ultimately acquiesced to the reestablishment of France’s prewar empire, which he hoped would shore up France’s economy and national pride.

No sooner did the French arrive back in Vietnam, with the guns of World War II barely gone cold, than fighting broke out against Ho’s Viet Minh forces. At first, the United States remained officially neutral, even as it avoided any contact with Ho. In 1947, however, Truman asserted that U.S. foreign policy was to assist any country whose stability is threatened by communism. Then the outbreak of the Korean War in 1950, plus the flow of aid from China and the Soviet Union to the Viet Minh, prompted Truman to reexamine Vietnam in a Cold War light.

 

[volkyries]

Sorry for the OT. I will let Vietnam go and get back to current topic.

 

[hog88]

Sorry for the OT. I will let Vietnam go and get back to current topic.

Just goes to the long line of bad FP decisions by Dem presidents......

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Ho lived in Russia and studied communism for 15 years or so before returning to Vietnam to liberate it. Maybe Truman didn't support him at that point because there was little point in helping him turn Vietnam into a communist country which at that point we were clearly against after WWII.

I'm not ruling that out, but I don't think that was likely the reason.

 

[volfanhill]

There were reports that Russia took Chernobyl in the first couple of days.

Indeed they did

 

[RDU VOL#14]

Go get em

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I obviously have no geopolitical expertise but I don't think the idea is to kill as many as possible. My guess is Putin is now of the mindset of if I can't have it, you can't have it and he's looking to just level the country. If people are there, meh. If they aren't, meh.

Either way, if and when he decides to pull out, there will be nothing left for Ukrainians to comeback to. No puppet government for the West to prop up along with lines on the map that Putin will get to re-draw.

Anyway, that's my guess.

Hmm... not sure what reporting you are looking at, but from what I can tell, it appears that he is not trying to knockout and destroy critical infrastructure because that will be less to rebuild. Had this been a US invasion, all power and electricity would be out because we would have targeted those facilities for destruction.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Wrong President and the reason Eisenhower didn't recognize Vietnam's independence is because they were persuaded by the French to not recognize its independence following their defeat at Dien Bien Phu until after an election was held in Vietnam. That didn't occur because, again being pressured by the French, Ho Chi Minh would have won rather easily unifying Vietnam which would have been another humiliation of the French. The South Vietnamese government was then propped up by the US because it was essentially illegitimate. The North then turned to the only real World power that would recognize them in the Soviet Union along with the Chinese who was not a World power at the time. Ho Chi Minh was a Communist but not in the Stalin/Mao mold. He was more of a pragmatic nationalist and endorsed a more modern view of it. In hindsight, our fears of another member of the Iron Curtain in Southeast Asia were unfounded.

???