War in Ukraine

#14,851
#14,851
Hunerwadel said:
So Ukraine is all Putin is interested it? He's done after that?
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I don't know at this point what Putin knows and what he might do at this point. I had no idea that the Ukrainians was negotiating a fast track deal with the US to join NATO in November/December. Putin obviously got knowledge of that.

But that is besides the point... if Poland truly believed what Zelensky was selling, there is no doubt in my mind that they would have acted by now.
 
#14,852
#14,852
AM64 said:
Blackmail. Either call them on it or set the standard for all time. Go for this and at some point sympathizing or speaking against aggression is being a belligerent or perhaps just considered an act of war. It's upping the game from a totalitarian government to dictating to the entire world if the rest of the world accepts it.
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Taking the hardline has gotten us to where we are right now. We backed ourselves so far in a corner that we are scrambling to cut energy deals with the Iranians and Venezuelans, and hoping, wishing and praying for some country in the region to step up and help Ukraine in their conflict with Russia.

There was the easy way and the hard way to resolve this, and the American hubris and arrogance that is illustrated in your comment is exactly what we don't need right now. Likely, it's too late to unscramble the egg. At the very least, we are going to be financially blasted with energy problems and galloping inflation because of these ridiculous sanctions and economic warfare. We would be lucky to only suffer a depression and not fall into the dark ages or total annihilation after a nuclear exchange. The time for honest and humble negotiations is well past due.
 
#14,855
#14,855
kiddiedoc said:
https://rusi.org/explore-our-resear...rce-actually-incapable-complex-air-operations

Interesting read.
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Yeah, the Russian air force disaster is shocking. The article is right in that they may still get their act together, but it fails to note that the Ukrainians have mobile S-300 AA systems that are reasonably effective against fighter jets.

It is also plausible that the US and our allies quietly armed them with other SAM system(s) that are even more effective than the S-300s, and are simply keeping that on the QT to avoid publicly prodding the bear. Hell we could have special op guys on the ground in Ukraine right now for all we know.

Add to this the MANPADS which are flowing bigtime into Ukrainian hands, making Russian helicopters and troop transports highly vulnerable.

If Russia remains incapable of effectively gaining air superiority / supremacy, this evens the match up bigly. In fact, Ukrainian ground forces actually outnumber the Russians - and they're on defense. Throw in all the anti-armor weapons provided by the West, and Russia is in a losing war.
 
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#14,856
#14,856
PowerT83 said:
Think that is accurate?
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No, definitely not - particularly the troop KIA numbers. Probably 2x the actual number. Fluff, double counting, and pure presumption that there were X number of Russians in a vehicle hit but not recovered. FWIW, US estimates I've see indicate we believe Russian troop deaths already number 5,000+, so there is some 3rd party confirmation available.

The helicopter and plane estimates are probably the most accurate.
 
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#14,857
#14,857
MontyPython said:
No, definitely not - particularly the troop KIA numbers. Probably 2x the actual number. Fluff, double counting, and pure presumption that there were X number of Russians in a vehicle hit but not recovered. FWIW, US estimates I've see indicate we believe Russian troop deaths already number 5,000+, so there is some 3rd party confirmation available.

The helicopter and plane estimates are probably the most accurate.
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It's hard to be accurate with body counts, id rather see the jets and equipment be destroyed, I think that hurt morale alot.
 
#14,861
#14,861
Would Ras cry if a Ukrainian sympathizer was able to assassinate Putin? I'd enjoy that.

How in the world he can continue to defend this or attempt to justify it in some way is beyond me. Children are being maimed and killed. I hope the whole damn Russian Army gets wiped out.
 
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#14,862
#14,862
MontyPython said:
No, definitely not - particularly the troop KIA numbers. Probably 2x the actual number. Fluff, double counting, and pure presumption that there were X number of Russians in a vehicle hit but not recovered. FWIW, US estimates I've see indicate we believe Russian troop deaths already number 5,000+, so there is some 3rd party confirmation available.

The helicopter and plane estimates are probably the most accurate.
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Then that makes the entire table of statistics suspect... or pure BS.
 
#14,864
#14,864
***RoadVol*** said:
Looks like they are trying and failing.
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Really? Or are they protecting civil infrastructure and not wanting to bomb the place into the stone ages, typical of an American invasion?

It was pointed out on the contrasts between how Russia is operating this vs the United States in Iraq. In Iraq in 2003, The US bombed continuously for several weeks before bringing in the ground troops. The Russians are opening with ground troops.

The metrics for success in our minds are based on how the invasion of Iraq was conducted in our minds, so that is part of the propaganda and distortion.
 
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#14,865
#14,865
MontyPython said:
No, definitely not - particularly the troop KIA numbers. Probably 2x the actual number. Fluff, double counting, and pure presumption that there were X number of Russians in a vehicle hit but not recovered. FWIW, US estimates I've see indicate we believe Russian troop deaths already number 5,000+, so there is some 3rd party confirmation available.

The helicopter and plane estimates are probably the most accurate.
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Enemy losses are often exaggerated to boost home morale. For those too young to remember, during the Vietnam war ABC, NBC and CBS would show a scorecard of enemy casualties on each nightly news broadcast. The reported NVA and VC losses were so high you'd think that we were killing, to paraphrase SBC as Borat, 'every man, woman and child, down to the lizards'.
 
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#14,866
#14,866
Weezer said:
Would Ras cry if a Ukrainian sympathizer was able to assassinate Putin? I'd enjoy that.

How in the world he can continue to defend this or attempt to justify it in some way is beyond me. Children are being maimed and killed. I hope the whole damn Russian Army gets wiped out.
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How could you defend the Ukrainian govt attacking the Donbas for the past 8 years and refusing the Minsk II ceasefire agreement that would javecsave 14k+ lives over that time?
 
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#14,867
#14,867
Rasputin_Vol said:
Then that makes the entire table of statistics suspect... or pure BS.
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Yes, any statistics provided by either side should be viewed with skepticism. Personally, I'd take the Ukrainian numbers and divide by half. Russian numbers - what little they've provided - appear to be total crap.
 
#14,870
#14,870
Rasputin_Vol said:
Really? Or are they protecting civil infrastructure and not wanting to bomb the place into the stone ages, typical of an American invasion?

It was pointed out on the contrasts between how Russia is operating this vs the United States in Iraq. In Iraq in 2003, The US bombed continuously for several weeks before bringing in the ground troops. The Russians are opening with ground troops.

The metrics for success in our minds are based on how the invasion of Iraq was conducted in our minds, so that is part of the propaganda and distortion.
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You have lost your mind
 
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#14,871
#14,871
OrangeTsar said:
„This is my last territorial demand in Europe.“ — Adolf Hitler
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It is funny to watch people discuss something that happened 80 years ago and make comments about how Y wasn’t done or how could they let X happen. Only to see it begin to emerge in our lifetime and people go, eh…nothing to see here.
 
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#14,873
#14,873
EasternVol said:
Enemy losses are often exaggerated to boost home morale. For those too young to remember, during the Vietnam war ABC, NBC and CBS would show a scorecard of enemy casualties on each nightly news broadcast. The reported NVA and VC losses were so high you'd think that we were killing, to paraphrase SBC as Borat, 'every man, woman and child, down to the lizards'.
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The casualties in the Vietnam War were extraordinarily high, nearly 10 to 1.
 
#14,875
#14,875
Rasputin_Vol said:
Civil services, for the most part, are still up and running in the vast majority of places. Electricity, water, gas, etc...

Had this been a US/NATO lead operation, would you honestly be able to say the same after a week and a half? Really?
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Simply because the US employs better tactics doesn’t mean that the Russian Army is more humane. The Russian government has proven that over the last 75 years on its own people much less a country it despises
 
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