War in Ukraine

[Rasputin_Vol]

Simply because the US employs better tactics doesn’t mean that the Russian Army is more humane. The Russian government has proven that over the last 75 years on its own people much less a country it despises

If 75 years is your threshold, then we were using dogs and fire hoses on protesters here and denying them fundamental human rights during that time.

 

[OrangeTsar]

How could you defend the Ukrainian govt attacking the Donbas for the past 8 years and refusing the Minsk II ceasefire agreement that would javecsave 14k+ lives over that time?

How can we defend the Ukrainians attacking a rebel force holding Ukrainian territory who is using that illegally occupied territory to launch continuous low grade warfare against the Ukrainian people???????

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Simply because the US employs better tactics doesn’t mean that the Russian Army is more humane. The Russian government has proven that over the last 75 years on its own people much less a country it despises

Better tactics or just different tactics?

 

[MontyPython]

It is funny to watch people discuss something that happened 80 years ago and make comments about how Y wasn’t done or how could they let X happen. Only to see it begin to emerge in our lifetime and people go, eh…nothing to see here.

"Those who don't know their history are doomed to repeat it."
- George Santayana

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

How can we defend the Ukrainians attacking a rebel force holding Ukrainian territory who is using that illegally occupied territory to launch continuous low grade warfare against the Ukrainian people???????
View attachment 437819

Sort of like the situation in Kosovo? Or the Kurds in Iraq? The Mujahedeen in Afghanistan? We have a history of supporting separatists or rebel groups in other countries. But ethnic Russians fighting the same fight in Donbas is somehow a unique situation.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

"Those who don't know their history are doomed to repeat it."
- George Santayana

Vietnam, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan... yep, I would say that is correct.

 

[Rickyvol77]

Not surprising though. Hell most of the left don’t even like America, they sure as hell wouldn’t fight for it

 

[OrangeTsar]

Sort of like the situation in Kosovo? Or the Kurds in Iraq? The Mujahedeen in Afghanistan? We have a history of supporting separatists or rebel groups in other countries. But ethnic Russians fighting the same fight in Donbas is somehow a unique situation.

And in each of those cases, the native government had every right to wage warfare against those rebels, even if we didn’t agree with them.
And these by the way are the same „separatists“ who shot down a civilian airliner killing almost 300. Fine outstanding people these separatists.

 

[landscapingvol]

If 75 years is your threshold, then we were using dogs and fire hoses on protesters here and denying them fundamental human rights during that time.

I agree and that would be a great point if the US hadn’t changed dramatically since then and was in the process of changing at that time. If only Russian gulags didn’t still exist today and basic denial of rights like I don’t know actually voting weren’t common place in Russia then you might have a point or those same individuals that were denied rights in the South have become political leaders today.

 

[OrangeTsar]

Civil services, for the most part, are still up and running in the vast majority of places. Electricity, water, gas, etc...

Yes, life in Ukraine is just peachy nowadays I hear.

 

[landscapingvol]

Better tactics or just different tactics?

Considering Russia hasn’t won a stand alone war since Napoleon, I would consider them vastly better

 

[Rickyvol77]

You have lost your mind

Lol I’ve been saying this for a few weeks now.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

And in each of those cases, the native government had every right to wage warfare against those rebels, even if we didn’t agree with them.
And these by the way are the same „separatists“ who shot down a civilian airliner killing almost 300. Fine outstanding people these separatists.

That is disputed by many. They didn't allow an independent investigation of the crash site. From what I remember, the information that the State Department gave us came from Jen Psaki or Maria Harf at the time. Not exactly the most honest people to have relaying messages.

 

[luthervol]

If 75 years is your threshold, then we were using dogs and fire hoses on protesters here and denying them fundamental human rights during that time.

Yet still have one of the most open societies on the planet.

 

[Rickyvol77]

If 75 years is your threshold, then we were using dogs and fire hoses on protesters here and denying them fundamental human rights during that time.

Is that better or worse than death camps in Siberia and purposefully starving millions?

 

[tvolsfan]

That is disputed by many. They didn't allow an independent investigation of the crash site. From what I remember, the information that the State Department gave us came from Jen Psaki or Maria Harf at the time. Not exactly the most honest people to have relaying messages.

Lol

 

[Rickyvol77]

That is disputed by many. They didn't allow an independent investigation of the crash site. From what I remember, the information that the State Department gave us came from Jen Psaki or Maria Harf at the time. Not exactly the most honest people to have relaying messages.

Lol another Ras conspiracy

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I agree and that would be a great point if the US hadn’t changed dramatically since then and was in the process of changing at that time. If only Russian gulags didn’t still exist today and basic denial of rights like I don’t know actually voting weren’t common place in Russia then you might have a point or those same individuals that were denied rights in the South have become political leaders today.

And this is not the USSR/Soviets we are talking about today.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Yet still have one of the most open societies on the planet.

No thanks to you guys. For how long will the republic hold on to what little freedoms we have left? You guys violated freedoms throughout this entire COVID debacle and now you want to lecture me on freedoms?

GTFOH...

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Is that better or worse than death camps in Siberia and purposefully starving millions?

Yeah, the Soviet Union was a horrible regime.

 

[luthervol]

No thanks to you guys. For how long will the republic hold on to what little freedoms we have left? You guys violated freedoms throughout this entire COVID debacle and now you want to lecture me on freedoms?

GTFOH...

lol......By open I mean accepting of differences. Nothing wrong with a mask mandate during a global pandemic full of unknowns.

GTFOHYM

 

[allvol123]

Civil services, for the most part, are still up and running in the vast majority of places. Electricity, water, gas, etc...

Had this been a US/NATO lead operation, would you honestly be able to say the same after a week and a half? Really?

Inside Ukraine, more than a million residents are going without gas after fighting caused extensive damage to domestic pipelines. Districts of Kyiv and entire towns including Mariupol have no gas, according to the Transmission System Operator, or TSO. The dearth of fuel is contribut-ing to a humanitarian crisis caused by Russia’s bom-bardment of residential areas in cities.

Ukrainians Risk Their Lives to Keep Russian Gas Flowing to Europe

ok

 

[MontyPython]

Good read.

What The Air Campaign in Ukraine Tells Us About The Current State Of The Russian Air Force


Excerpts:

Why is it, do you think, that the initial reports concerning the war were focused on the land invasion? We did not really see a lot of tactical aviation assets involved. I am asking because ever since the Desert Storm, air superiority/supremacy, has been considered to be a must for any military operation? 7 days in (at the time when this interview is done), still no air superiority. What do you think is the cause here?

You’re also absolutely right; the Russians also consider air superiority/supremacy to be very important. Russian military theorists have drawn many lessons from Desert Storm and subsequent US and allied operations. They think that the course and outcome of the struggle in the air/space domain has a cardinal impact on the course and outcome of conflicts and wars as a whole. They therefore regard the establishment of air superiority/supremacy, as very important. So it’s quite puzzling to see the Russians apparently make such limited use of their operational-tactical aviation early on, especially when considering the large number of operational-tactical aviation assets Russia has deployed within range of Ukraine. Indeed, until very recently, the use of operational-tactical aviation appears to have been very limited for a military operation of this scale. Of course, there is likely a lot more that went on that we don’t know about because it hasn’t been captured on film, but footage of Russian tactical aircraft attacking targets has been very sporadic. Only recently have we begun seeing more footage documenting their use. The Russians did not appear to exploit the partial success of their initial missile strikes and follow them up with large fixed-wing strike packages. One explanation is that the Russians probably overestimated their own capabilities and underestimated the Ukrainians. They may have believed that their ground forces would be able to seize key objectives swiftly, and that the extensive use of operational-tactical aviation would therefore not be necessary. This is supported by the fact that the opening phase of missile-aviation and artillery attacks that preceded the ground offensive was quite short. Many analysts expected it to be much longer and more intense. The apparent subsequent reluctance to commit large numbers of tactical aircraft may have been due to possible fears of suffering excessive losses, but, with Ukraine’s air defense capabilities increasingly degraded and with Russia committing more forces, there is now, as I noted earlier, increased operational-tactical aviation activity.

What about the Russian SEAD/DEAD? Was it a relevant part of this operation, or not yet? Or is it the fog of war, and the Ukrainians not sharing information within that scope, regarding their losses of the air defense assets? did the Russians meet a lot of resistance, in the SEAD domain?

Russia is conducting DEAD (destruction of enemy air defense) as part of its broader OCA (offensive counter air) effort. This effort includes targeting airfields/bases, C2 assets, air defense systems, early warning radars, other surface targets, and aircraft in the air. Russia appears to have targeted Ukrainian air defenses primarily using quasi-ballistic and cruise missiles as well as some anti-radiation missiles. The exact extent to which Russia’s DEAD effort has been successful is not entirely clear, but some Ukrainian air defense systems remain operational. Ukrainian air defense systems are mobile, making it more difficult for Russian aviation to locate and destroy them. Indeed, generally speaking, dynamic targeting, particularly against time-sensitive targets in a contested environment, remains a big point of weakness for the VKS (Russian Aerospace Force).

Doctrine-wise, the sophistication levels are nowhere near what we see in the West, aren’t they?

That’s correct. Notably, Russian operational-tactical aviation trains to target air defenses chiefly with unguided weapons, and some of the tactics they employ are of dubious value, potentially resulting in heavy losses if relied upon in actual combat. Moreover, based on what we can glean from Russian Defense Ministry press releases, their exercises appear to exhibit little in the way complex scenarios involving SEAD packages supporting strike packages. On this note, while Russia’s operational-tactical aviation includes many aircraft types capable of employing anti-radiation missiles, it lacks a dedicated SEAD platform. There are no Russian “Wild Weasels.”

 

[utvolpj]

lol......By open I mean accepting of differences. Nothing wrong with a mask mandate during a global pandemic full of unknowns.

GTFOHYM

Accepting of differences? That's one of your funniest posts ever

 

[Rickyvol77]

Yeah, the Soviet Union was a horrible regime.

So is Putin’s Russia