War in Ukraine

[OHvol40]

Do you assert, then, that Putin will be responsible for any outcome that results from America's efforts to support Ukraine?

No, everything that happens in the world is America’s fault.

 

[DuckInAPen]

Horrible headline.

Mediocre article.

I'll grant you that the headline is too liable to misinterpretation.

 

[DuckInAPen]

From what I can tell that publication is the epitome of Russian apologist.

That's quite a serious accusation you make, lawgator1. Can you cite any concrete evidence in support of it?

 

[KB5252]

They went in to stop the conflict that the Ukrainians have been engaged in since 2014 with ethnic Russians in the breakaway republics. You leave that out. The Ukrainians violated the Minsk II ceasefire agreement since 2015band have killed over 14k in the region. You don't seem to care about those killed... or you ignore them... or if I give you the benefit of doubt, maybe you just don't know about them.

When you are an armed separatist movement that attacked Ukraine I'm not sure what response you would expect Ras. This happened because the people dared to purge a Russian plant who pulled the bait and switch on them.

 

[volfanhill]

That's quite a serious accusation you make, lawgator1. Can you cite any concrete evidence in support of it?

Same version of question to you. Can you provide evidence they are legitimate? They have little history I can find. Smells fishy

 

[NCFisher]

Bust your nose? lol.... Give me a break. Trump wasn't viewed as any sort of tough guy. He was viewed as a narciissistic, irrational, buffoon with limited knowledge of global affairs by our allies and as a useful idiot by our enemies.

Only by stupid people who opine such things; if you're not one of them, you should stop the mimicry. Earlier today, I dismissed such a comment of yours.

Our allies are effete milksops who could barely muster a decent campaign between them if necessary; the two most capable militaries - France and UK - couldn't have even pulled off the Libya campaign without our logistical and tanker support. They have shite on this country for decades while living under our umbrella, thankless squatters who denounce our militarism until they need big brother. We are NATO, period. Germany has finally seen the blinding Ukraine light and announced urgent commitment to increased defense spending, just as Trump harangued them to do. If we're smart, we'd tell our allies FUND yourselves and don't let your 10-pound mouth get your 5-pound ass in trouble; if you act recklessly, you're on your own, NATO or not.

He enforced the Syrian red line Obama established but declined to do out of fear of provoking Putin. Trump told Russia we coming in to smack Assad, get out of the way if you don't want to get it on you.

The commander in chief, who ordered a review of the conflict after taking office, has also "directed a tactical shift from shoving ISIS out of safe locations in an attrition fight to surrounding the enemy in their strongholds so we can annihilate ISIS," Mattis added. "The intent is to prevent the return home of escaped foreign fighters." Mattis: Trump Empowered Commanders to 'Annihilate ISIS'

It was his military that destroyed hundreds of Russian and Syrian fighters in Feb 2018 when U.S. positions came under attack. "We got our f**** a***s beat, Yankees made their point": Russian mercenaries in Syria lament U.S. strikes

The Taliban didn't march across AF until Biden took office. Russia didn't invade Ukraine again until Biden once again infested the WH. Our allies and Democrats recoiled in horror that we actually killed an Iranian wipe who had been whacking Western troops for years.

Here's a final message for our allied 'leaders'; represent your country first and last and do so to the point you take no compensation and lost half your wealth in service to your country. Then I'll give a fk about what you have to say.

 

[volfanhill]

Bust your nose? lol.... Give me a break. Trump wasn't viewed as any sort of tough guy. He was viewed as a narciissistic, irrational, buffoon with limited knowledge of global affairs by our allies and as a useful idiot by our enemies.

Look I hate trump but that's nonsense. He poked Iran right in the eye. Killed high ranking terrorists and dared them to do something. He wasn't a useful idiot. It's absurd to look at the current Russia situation and blame him. Just be honest.

 

[volfanhill]

What a idiot. So he owns Ukraine when he wins. Then/now is only a vassal state to China. Clown

Russia 'has gone all in': Does Putin have a way out of his war in Ukraine?

 

[NCFisher]

Former presidents traditionally show a little class in these tense situations and let the new guy manage the crisis, save the partisan sniping and politics for later.

But of course that jackass has to stick his nose in and beat his chest. What a completely dick move.

It's a dick move to moan about facts, such as pointing out Biden's foreign policy is the 3rd term of Obama.

 

[DuckInAPen]

He pretty much said, Putin is going to win anyway, so if you don't give Ukraine any way to defend themselves, less people will die in the process. Or in other words, Ukraine should not fight back.

This is a gross oversimplification of Linetsky's argument. Before we consider arming an insurgency, we have an obligation to consider whether that insurgency is likely to achieve anything more than a Pyrrhic victory. If it's not, our aid will have a made the end result even worse for the people of Ukraine, however righteous our intentions.

We have a responsibility, too, to consider in whose hands the weapons we propose to supply may ultimately end up. If we don't have reasonable assurance that their use will be limited to the purposes for which we've given them, that's a real problem.

Finally, we have an obligation to avoid direct military conflict between nuclear powers. We should consider whether our delivery of military aid has the potential of drawing us unwittingly into direct conflict with another nuclear power.

 

[CagleMtnVol]

Is it safe to say based on what we have seen (at least so far) that the US & NATO has over estimated the ability of the Russian military over the last 30 years?

 

[NCFisher]

Dubya is already considered one of the worst US presidents ever to hold the office because he fabricated a reason to invade Iraq and trampled individual rights/privacy. Sound familiar? He has been called out for it ad nauseam, though.

Mmm, about that...the Clintons and party leaders of both stripes made the WMD sales pitch for two years prior to Bush being elected; he simply closed the sale. Terms of the closing were dictated by the shite intel, a joint committee found. Bush's sin is that he gave himself over when the shite intel aligned with his view of Iraq & Hussein. I'm with you on the surveillance state boost he embraced.

 

[DuckInAPen]

Same version of question to you. Can you provide evidence they are legitimate? They have little history I can find. Smells fishy

Yes, I can. Here are a couple of links I had shared with lawgator1 upthread:

Can a New Think Tank Put a Stop to Endless War?

Quincy Institute For Responsible Statecraft

 

[NorthDallas40]

Is it safe to say based on what we have seen (at least so far) that the US & NATO has over estimated the ability of the Russian military over the last 30 years?

That probably isn’t a fair assessment. What we might be seeing is over estimating the Russian military’s desire to blindly obey that dictator Putin in killing other Russians

 

[NCFisher]

That probably isn’t a fair assessment. What we might be seeing is over estimating the Russian military’s desire to blindly obey that dictator Putin in killing other Russians

I award you both one point for plausible conjecture!

 

[volfanhill]

Yes, I can. Here are a couple of links I had shared with lawgator1 upthread:

Can a New Think Tank Put a Stop to Endless War?

Quincy Institute For Responsible Statecraft

I asked you to show me that was a reputable business and your reply was to send me to other sites? That makes no sense.

 

[AM64]

Taking the hardline has gotten us to where we are right now. We backed ourselves so far in a corner that we are scrambling to cut energy deals with the Iranians and Venezuelans, and hoping, wishing and praying for some country in the region to step up and help Ukraine in their conflict with Russia.

There was the easy way and the hard way to resolve this, and the American hubris and arrogance that is illustrated in your comment is exactly what we don't need right now. Likely, it's too late to unscramble the egg. At the very least, we are going to be financially blasted with energy problems and galloping inflation because of these ridiculous sanctions and economic warfare. We would be lucky to only suffer a depression and not fall into the dark ages or total annihilation after a nuclear exchange. The time for honest and humble negotiations is well past due.

So there should be no hard rules of behavior? Should Israel have just turned the other cheek every time they were attacked instead of retaliating? If they had done that, Israel would probably have ceased to exist. It seems it's been a part of the American culture to stand up for others against a bully; but if the bully has teeth, it's different? At least most of us posting on this topic can identify the bully.

The difference between Israel vs the neighbors, and Ukraine vs Russia is that Israel's neighbors are not superpowers like Russia, China, and the US. If this were Ukraine against Romania or Poland, NATO would have been a non-issue, and the match would have been far more even. You think the US was wrong in our actions around the globe, and I won't argue against you, but why condemn US actions and not Russian? Your NATO argument as a threat to Russia is BS; Russia just doesn't want to have anything even resembling an even fight if they decide to grab a neighbor.

 

[DuckInAPen]

I asked you to show me that was a reputable business and your reply was to send me to other sites? That makes no sense.

I provided you an extensive profile of the organization that publishes Responsible Statecraft that appeared in The Nation, a major American journal that has been in publication since 1865. I also provided you an overview of the organization's funding, mission, and leadership published by Influence Watch. What sort of evidence would satisfy you that Responsible Statecraft is a legitimate vehicle of American public discourse and not a front for disseminating Russian propaganda?

 

[CABVOL]

Has anyone actually met him? At this point I could believe he is part of the propaganda arm of the Russians, hacking away at a keyboard in Moscow.

I’m not sure about Ras, but I’ve thought on more than one occasion that the PF definitely has some intentionally planted trolls/bots.

 

[NEO]

That probably isn’t a fair assessment. What we might be seeing is over estimating the Russian military’s desire to blindly obey that dictator Putin in killing other Russians

Supposedly though they cannot fight at night.

It does seem they have some issues.

 

[zeppelin128]

I’m not sure about Ras, but I’ve thought on more than one occasion that the PF definitely has some intentionally planted trolls/bots.

 

[DuckInAPen]

I asked you to show me that was a reputable business and your reply was to send me to other sites? That makes no sense.

Here's another profile of the Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft that appeared in The Boston Globe:

In an astonishing turn, George Soros and Charles Koch team up to end US ‘forever war’ policy - The Boston Globe

 

[IluvdoubleD's]

Chaos and disorder. Don't forget all your media outlets are kushner companies. Russian propaganda targeting Spanish-language users proliferates on social media

 

[DuckInAPen]

May God strengthen these righteous priests as they confess His truth:

Russian priest arrested for delivering sermon against Ukraine war

Russian Orthodox priests call for immediate end to war in Ukraine

 

[MontyPython]

14 tanks, 24 APCs yesterday.