War in Ukraine

[Gandalf]

I see a very complicated situation. Absolutely there is politics with many different interests at play, there always is. In this particular instance Russia is attempting to justify an invasion by saying the regime in Ukraine are Nazi's and drug addicts. The truth is naturally more complex. The problem is instead of negotiating from his position of weakness he chose war, it make him the bad guy in all this.

What we do to put pressure on him is a different matter. In the end we have found ourselves in the middle of a world war. Our steps must be deliberate and measured.

I'm not sure we chose the best partners either but the lines have been drawn and sides have already been chosen.

Of COURSE Putin is lying, of COURSE Ukraine is lying too - they both have something they want.

What is disturbing is that people here are not THINKING (just FEELING) - "given this crapstorm in 2 countries on the other side of the world, what should we do that is in the best interest of AMERICA and AMERICANS? That should be the only thought going through people's heads. A far distant second is "what is good for our allies? and once all that is settled and we have some reliable answers, then we can ask things like "what is good for Ukraine"

I can guarantee you that two homeless drug addicts are probably fighting in the streets of San Francisco even as I type this. Yet not one of you will travel over there and deliver food, shelter, risk yourself to stop the aggressive one from beating the crap out of the weaker one. Why is that? Well, I would, you say, if I know about it - No you wouldn't. Why arent the local police handling that first? Why aren't the neighboring stores who have spent nothing on security for the last few years stepping in to break it up and sort it out. Why is this different? Why is it massively different than the war raging in Yemen or Sudan, where 100s of thousands have died or Afghanistan, in a country we just abandoned in a rush, where 10s of thousands of children are starving to death right now?

WHY? - BECAUSE IT IS BEING PUT IN YOUR FACE DAY TO DAY BY AN ORCHESTRATED MEDIA CAMPAIGN.

There is an old saying that if you sit down to a card game and can't figure out who is the mark (weak player to take all their chips), then YOU are the mark.

 

[Vol737]

Looks like Trump was right. Those Germans aren't laughing now.

I’m not a big Trump fan, but just look how unbelievably smug the German delegation becomes and their body language. I say fend for yourselves.

 

[DonjoVol]

I’m just glad Netflix is no longer available inRussia. That’s gonna get them to the negotiating table.

And I believe EA Sports banned the Russian teams in the new FIFA game. We are really flexing our muscles.

 

[Ernest T. Vol]

Another thing I've learned over the past few weeks. Only Russian billionaires are oligarchs. American, European and Ukrainian billionaires are all wonderful people. They are not oligarchs. They are philanthropists. Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, Jeff Bezos, George Soros, Warren Buffet, and Elon Musk are people we should admire and everyone one of them would make a great president for this country.

One man's billionaire is another man's oligarch.

 

[KB5252]

Of COURSE Putin is lying, of COURSE Ukraine is lying too - they both have something they want.

What is disturbing is that people here are not THINKING (just FEELING) - "given this crapstorm in 2 countries on the other side of the world, what should we do that is in the best interest of AMERICA and AMERICANS? That should be the only thought going through people's heads. A far distant second is "what is good for our allies? and once all that is settled and we have some reliable answers, then we can ask things like "what is good for Ukraine"

I can guarantee you that two homeless drug addicts are probably fighting in the streets of San Francisco even as I type this. Yet not one of you will travel over there and deliver food, shelter, risk yourself to stop the aggressive one from beating the crap out of the weaker one. Why is that? Well, I would, you say, if I know about it - No you wouldn't. Why arent the local police handling that first? Why aren't the neighboring stores who have spent nothing on security for the last few years stepping in to break it up and sort it out. Why is this different? Why is it massively different than the war raging in Yemen or Sudan, where 100s of thousands have died or Afghanistan, in a country we just abandoned in a rush, where 10s of thousands of children are starving to death right now?

WHY? - BECAUSE IT IS BEING PUT IN YOUR FACE DAY TO DAY BY AN ORCHESTRATED MEDIA CAMPAIGN.

There is an old saying that if you sit down to a card game and can't figure out who is the mark (weak player to take all their chips), then YOU are the mark.

It's because it's one of the two nuclear super powers who has threatened to use those weapons if anyone intervenes.

It's because it's happening on the doorstep of allies. That's the difference. You can argue if it's wise or not to be in that alliance but I would just point out we attempted to be isolationist the last time war was waged in Europe but were eventually drug into a world war......... And the world is much smaller than it was back in the 40's.

 

[OrangeTsar]

I don't think I've ever owned anything from Russia that wasn't liquid.

I DID have that Farbige egg collection a while back

 

[red butler]

Of COURSE Putin is lying, of COURSE Ukraine is lying too - they both have something they want.

What is disturbing is that people here are not THINKING (just FEELING) - "given this crapstorm in 2 countries on the other side of the world, what should we do that is in the best interest of AMERICA and AMERICANS? That should be the only thought going through people's heads. A far distant second is "what is good for our allies? and once all that is settled and we have some reliable answers, then we can ask things like "what is good for Ukraine"

I can guarantee you that two homeless drug addicts are probably fighting in the streets of San Francisco even as I type this. Yet not one of you will travel over there and deliver food, shelter, risk yourself to stop the aggressive one from beating the crap out of the weaker one. Why is that? Well, I would, you say, if I know about it - No you wouldn't. Why arent the local police handling that first? Why aren't the neighboring stores who have spent nothing on security for the last few years stepping in to break it up and sort it out. Why is this different? Why is it massively different than the war raging in Yemen or Sudan, where 100s of thousands have died or Afghanistan, in a country we just abandoned in a rush, where 10s of thousands of children are starving to death right now?

WHY? - BECAUSE IT IS BEING PUT IN YOUR FACE DAY TO DAY BY AN ORCHESTRATED MEDIA CAMPAIGN.

There is an old saying that if you sit down to a card game and can't figure out who is the mark (weak player to take all their chips), then YOU are the mark.

The problem, in my opinion, is a long drawn out war is likely in the best interest of the American establishment. It will weaken Russia economically and militarily. This invasion has pushed almost all of Europe against Russia, which is good for the US geopolitically in the long run. But at the same time, it will hurt us average Americans pretty badly economically.

 

[OrangeTsar]

I don't think I've ever owned anything from Russia that wasn't liquid.

And as Tsar, I am STILL waiting for someone to return my Amber Room stolen by the Nazis

 

[Orangeburst]

Bob Kraft wants his SB ring back
Has to be part of any settlement

 

[Gandalf]

It's because it's one of the two nuclear super powers who has threatened to use those weapons if anyone intervenes.

It's because it's happening on the doorstep of allies. That's the difference. You can argue if it's wise or not to be in that alliance but I would just point out we attempted to be isolationist the last time war was waged in Europe but were eventually drug into a world war......... And the world is much smaller than it was back in the 40's.

I am not saying being an isolationist is the best policy either - but that doesnt change the prime question - what should we do that is in the best interest of AMERICA and AMERICANS?

But the question everyone seems to be asking is - What is the best way to help Ukraine and Ukrainians? That is a vastly different question.

 

[RDU VOL#14]

"Extremely unconfirmed"

We can now reduce “Extremely Unconfirmed” to “kinda sorta”

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

You still haven’t addressed this under the paradigm where Russia is the aggressor in the current scenario. They don’t invade, and we don’t have war. End of story.

Yes I have, but I will go over this again for the thousandth time.

The US orchestrated a coup in 2014 and installed their hand selected puppets to run the country. Those leaders then proceeded to attack the breakaway republics and over the last 8 years have killed 14k in the region. They were also encouraged to not abide by the Minsk II ceasefire agreements that were established in 2014 and 2015. These events of the last 8 years combined with the recent (alleged) agreement in November and December of 2021 to fast track Ukraine membership into NATO were the catalysts for this. Putin did what any other country would have done (including the United States) if they had a neighboring country get destabilized and then move to join a military alliance against them. This is common sense and would be known as such in 99% of instances... unless the conversation then circles back into a country that doesn't toe the line with Western/US geopolitical objectives. Then that obvious acknowledgment of security concerns is ignored and dismissed. On the other hand, The United States, Britain, Saudis and Israel can pretty much do whatever they so please with regards to their territorial interests.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Mariupol authorities accuse Russians of bombing maternity hospital
From CNN's Tim Lister in Kyiv and Olga Voitovych

The city council of the southern Ukrainian city of Mariupol has posted video of a devastated maternity hospital in the city and accused Russian forces of dropping several bombs on it from the air.

"The destruction is enormous. The building of the medical facility where the children were treated recently is completely destroyed. Information on casualties is being clarified," the council said.​

"A maternity hospital in the city center, a children’s ward and department of internal medicine ... all these were destroyed during the Russian air strike on Mariupol. Just now," said Pavlo Kyrylenko, head of the Donetsk regional administration.

Not saying this did or did not happen, but it sounds like...

 

[Gandalf]

The problem, in my opinion, is a long drawn out war is likely in the best interest of the American establishment. It will weaken Russia economically and militarily. This invasion has pushed almost all of Europe against Russia, which is good for the US geopolitically in the long run. But at the same time, it will hurt us average Americans pretty badly economically.

Agreed it is good for our political class. Sure it has pushed EU against Russia - but pushed Russia right into the loving embrace of China and India. All the while, screwing the hell out of almost every American who isnt in DC.

 

[DonjoVol]

Not saying this did or did not happen, but it sounds like...

Interesting. I saw this a few weeks ago

 

[tvolsfan]

Agreed it is good for our political class. Sure it has pushed EU against Russia - but pushed Russia right into the loving embrace of China and India. All the while, screwing the hell out of almost every American who isnt in DC.

It is not good for Americans to watch Russia wipe out democracies, weaken Europe, and attempt to reconstruct the Russian empire.

 

[red butler]

Agreed it is good for our political class. Sure it has pushed EU against Russia - but pushed Russia right into the loving embrace of China and India. All the while, screwing the hell out of almost every American who isnt in DC.

I'm thinking China is next on the list to be isolated from the rest of the world. Hopefully Xi sees the resistance in Ukraine and has second thoughts about Taiwan.

 

[tvolsfan]

Yes I have, but I will go over this again for the thousandth time.

The US orchestrated a coup in 2014 and installed their hand selected puppets to run the country. Those leaders then proceeded to attack the breakaway republics and over the last 8 years have killed 14k in the region. They were also encouraged to not abide by the Minsk II ceasefire agreements that were established in 2014 and 2015. These events of the last 8 years combined with the recent (alleged) agreement in November and December of 2021 to fast track Ukraine membership into NATO were the catalysts for this. Putin did what any other country would have done (including the United States) if they had a neighboring country get destabilized and then move to join a military alliance against them. This is common sense and would be known as such in 99% of instances... unless the conversation then circles back into a country that doesn't toe the line with Western/US geopolitical objectives. Then that obvious acknowledgment of security concerns is ignored and dismissed. On the other hand, The United States, Britain, Saudis and Israel can pretty much do whatever they so please with regards to their territorial interests.

Nah

 

[red butler]

Not saying this did or did not happen, but it sounds like...

In the video I posted, a Canadian journalist actually confronted the Ambassador and the congressman about her true identity in separate interviews. Their reaction was priceless.

 

[volbound1700]

I'm thinking China is next on the list to be isolated from the rest of the world. Hopefully Xi sees the resistance in Ukraine and has second thoughts about Taiwan.

That would be interesting because China and USA are still highly dependent on each other economically. The world is more globally tied to China economically than Russia. Sanctions would be harder to implement in this scenario.

 

[lawgator1]

I have no complaint with him pointing that out. We all know its true that gas prices and other prices are going to go up. The debate is, is it worth it? That's a legitimate debate.

But Carlson prior to this rally around the Brave Ukrainians moment, was very much both dismissing Biden's warnings AND justifying Putin's bravado.

The record on this is absolutely clear. It is not debatable.

He has tried to back off his earlier comments since then and to rehabilitate his image. Up to you whether you are going to let him off the hook. I'm not.

He'd have more credibility if he just admitted that Biden was right and he was wrong.

 

[volfanhill]

I have no complaint with him pointing that out. We all know its true that gas prices and other prices are going to go up. The debate is, is it worth it? That's a legitimate debate.

But Carlson prior to this rally around the Brave Ukrainians moment, was very much both dismissing Biden's warnings AND justifying Putin's bravado.

The record on this is absolutely clear. It is not debatable.

He has tried to back off his earlier comments since then and to rehabilitate his image. Up to you whether you are going to let him off the hook. I'm not.

He'd have more credibility if he just admitted that Biden was right and he was wrong.

And you will continue to pretend it's only bc of Putin. Found a good excuse for why your policies blow. Don't take it from me. Straight from your own party.

"The good news is we now have a very specific reason for rising gas prices and a specific villain," said Celinda Lake, who served as one of Biden's top campaign pollsters in 2020 and currently polls for Biden-aligned groups. "Before, it was kind of ambiguous: What's going on? Why are gas prices going up?"

 

[davethevol]

OPEC chief says there's 'no capacity in the world' that could replace Russia's 7 million barrels a day in oil supply

 

[landscapingvol]

Yes I have, but I will go over this again for the thousandth time.

The US orchestrated a coup in 2014 and installed their hand selected puppets to run the country. Those leaders then proceeded to attack the breakaway republics and over the last 8 years have killed 14k in the region. They were also encouraged to not abide by the Minsk II ceasefire agreements that were established in 2014 and 2015. These events of the last 8 years combined with the recent (alleged) agreement in November and December of 2021 to fast track Ukraine membership into NATO were the catalysts for this. Putin did what any other country would have done (including the United States) if they had a neighboring country get destabilized and then move to join a military alliance against them. This is common sense and would be known as such in 99% of instances... unless the conversation then circles back into a country that doesn't toe the line with Western/US geopolitical objectives. Then that obvious acknowledgment of security concerns is ignored and dismissed. On the other hand, The United States, Britain, Saudis and Israel can pretty much do whatever they so please with regards to their territorial interests.

Does Ukraine not have the right to fight against separatists regions that are supplied by Russia within its own borders? Does Ukraine not have the right to join NATO or the EU if it chooses to do so? Russia is openly hostile against Ukraine, what does it legitimately expect in return? Ukraine posed absolutely no military threat towards Russia. Its military is virtually non existent. There are several poor ex Soviet bloc nations that border Russia that have been made and continue to be unstable due to Russian meddling whether you choose to admit or not rather than deflecting to US foreign policy. Mexico poses more of a threat to the US than Ukraine ever has towards Russia through drug smuggling, immigration, cartels, and gang violence. There is no justification for invading Ukraine

 

[DonjoVol]

I'm thinking China is next on the list to be isolated from the rest of the world. Hopefully Xi sees the resistance in Ukraine and has second thoughts about Taiwan.

Not going to happen anytime soon.. Keep dreaming.