War in Ukraine

*sigh* I am going to post this here -

a full-length film by none other than Oliver Stone called Ukraine on Fire from 2016, so well before recent events.
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Its Imdb summary:
Ukraine. Across its eastern border is Russia and to its west-Europe. For centuries, it has been at the center of a tug-of-war between powers seeking to control its rich lands and access to the Black Sea. 2014's Maidan Massacre triggered a bloody uprising that ousted president Viktor Yanukovych and painted Russia as the perpetrator by Western media. But was it? "Ukraine on Fire" by Igor Lopatonok provides a historical perspective for the deep divisions in the region which lead to the 2004 Orange Revolution, 2014 uprisings, and the violent overthrow of democratically elected Yanukovych. Covered by Western media as a people's revolution, it was in fact a coup d'état scripted and staged by nationalist groups and the U.S. State Department. Investigative journalist Robert Parry reveals how U.S.-funded political NGOs and media companies have emerged since the 80s replacing the CIA in promoting America's geopolitical agenda abroad.

I dont like or trust Oliver Stone any more than I can throw him but I am starting to watch this and it is interesting - the intro is very worth it ;) Whether you agree with this or not (and I have not finished watching it), it has a lot of great history and it gives a lot of background of all the players.

I am going to assume this is a Russian-funded propaganda piece they hired Stone to do since it tweaks the USA - but still, I think it is worth watching as it is a serious production and is outside of today's media cycle. I have a feeling, that if you watch this, you will at least understand why Ras thinks what he does.

WAIT - HOLY CRAP

This woman - Victoria Nuland is the same one in the film above and is just telling Marco Rubio that there is nothing to see here for bio weapons lab...er "biological research facilities"
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Ok, gotta watch this now - very interesting.
I can't believe that you are just now being introduced to Victoria Nuland. In case this is the case, listen to this leaked phone call between her and Geoffrey Pyatt 2 weeks before the Yanukovich regime was overthrown in 2014. It is clear to anyone that has 2 brain cells and an ounce of honesty and integrity that this is clear evidence of the US State Department coordinating the coup and establishing the next puppet leaders.

 
And? I am sure we do in a lot of countries as does China and Russia

Well one problem is that we have been loudly claiming that no, we dont have any in Ukraine and anyone who thought the story of Russia grabbing them was a tin foil hat nut. Frankly, I thought it was a bit conspiracy nuttish before myself really but lo and behold, yes, they do fund a bunch there for dangerous weapons research. So the question is now that we have lost them or perhaps even they get blown up - does this pose any threat to Ukraine, EU or even the USA.

And yes, I assume we have lots of bioweapons research going on, both offensive and defensive, no matter what they claim - same as most other major powers.
 
And? I am sure we do in a lot of countries as does China and Russia
The threat if Saddam having "weapons of mass destruction" was the justification for the US to invade Iraq...

Putin could do the same thing with the bio labs being on his country's border instead of halfway around the globe in our case with Iraq.
 
Russia’s Ex-Foreign Minister on His ‘Totalitarian’ Country

“I think what prompted Putin and his inner circle,” Kozyrev tells me, “is that they see this is really a crucial moment, a tipping point for Europe and the world. Despite certain deviations in, say, Hungary and Turkey, there has been a general movement toward more democracy and openness. This terrifies Putin.”

For Kozyrev, it is point-missing to talk about a “new” Cold War, because the old one, at least according to the siloviki (strongmen) in Moscow, never ended. “All of these guys, mostly from the KGB, never agreed that the Soviet Union lost the Cold War to the Russian people together with the democratic world outside. They don’t buy it. They want to stop it. And now they think this is their last decisive battle.”

I ask Kozyrev about a debate that has roiled the American foreign policy establishment in the leadup to this war. Did NATO go too far? On the contrary, he thinks it didn’t go far enough.

“One thing among many I admire about the American character is your ability to look into what you did and to be very, very critical of your mistakes,” Kozyrev says, in what I’m right to assume is a slightly philosophical preliminary to an incoming polemic. “Like when Congress unanimously passed a ban on any kind of lynching. It’s a little late, but it’s important because it’s a form of national repentance. That’s what Russia doesn’t do. Russia doesn’t repent. It hasn’t really for Stalinism or for cutting a deal with Hitler. Instead, it blames Ukraine for Nazism, which is ridiculous.”

As to the pundits and policy mandarins who think the West sleepwalked into this crisis, which now threatens to bleed out beyond the borders of Russia and Belarus and Ukraine, Kozyrev thinks that’s simply nonsense. “Unfortunately, there are many wishful thinkers especially in academia here and intellectuals who have ties to Russia. They go to Valdai [a Russian think tank forum]. They consume caviar and vodka and are treated like kings by those who exist solely to manipulate them. This argument about NATO is just propaganda fed to Americans who then regurgitate it in their opinion and journal essays. The only real analysts who come here from Russia are dissidents. The rest are front people, just like in the Soviet Union, and they manufacture Western champions of the Putin regime, chumps and useful idiots.”

The big mistake was placing Russia on a “low-burner process” toward partnership with, if not membership in, the alliance, Kozyrev says. “The very idea that NATO was the source of trouble is based on the old Soviet enemy image of it, an image which never changed and is now exploited by all the old customers from the KGB.”

“If NATO dissolved tomorrow, they would still claim the West was the enemy of Russia.”

I ask Kozyrev about Putin’s now notorious speech at the Munich Security Conference in 2007, at which he articulated a conspiratorial view of the EU, NATO and even the OSCE (Organization for Security and Co-operations in Europe) as agents of American hegemony. Many analysts have retroactively attributed Putin’s then-coalescing worldview at the time to the spate of “color revolutions” that had swept Ukraine, Georgia and Central Asian republics. Kozyrev maintains that such analysis is to state the matter backward.

“Putin’s speech was in fact anticipatory. He sensed that more revolutions were coming, that countries around Russia were ripe to go further with democratization and westernization. They were striving to join the very structures he criticized, and his speech was to preempt this danger.”
 
Deja vu. Tucker is playing on your fears. We heard the same thing in '73 & '74. "It's the end of the world." We even had wage and price freezes. Reagan at one time proposed a 5% wage cut but backed off. There's been too much spending especially since the pandemic and interest rates are way too low. Our chickens are coming home to roost. It's always been just a matter of time. The American economy has always had it't ups and downs. The markets will adjust. The thing we need to fear is Putin going mad and setting off a nuclear exchange.

Yeah it’s still ‘73 or ‘74...lol. Just a bump in the road...

This isn’t the dominant world power USA anymore. Those days are done...
 
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B.C. businessman pushes $50M Putin 'war criminal' reward

A B.C. businessman has offered $1 million in seed money for a $50-million reward for whoever brings Russian President Vladimir Putin to the International Criminal Court for trial as a war criminal.

“He’s a crazy dictator and we have to stop that,” Vikram Bajwa tells Glacier Media. "It's also a good way to support Ukraine."

“I encourage other Canadians/Americans to join me and match/increase the award to $50 million ... for his arrest and conviction,” Bajwa said.
 
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The threat if Saddam having "weapons of mass destruction" was the justification for the US to invade Iraq...

Putin could do the same thing with the bio labs being on his country's border instead of halfway around the globe in our case with Iraq.

You do realize Saddam used chemical weapons on his own people. Ukraine has never used chemical weapons on Russia or anyone and is not a military threat to Russia no matter how much you try to defend Russia. The US has never used biological weapons in the history of the nation and haven't used chemical weapons since Vietnam if you count napalm. Your strawman arguments for Russia are ridiculous
 
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Ras is trying to decide if Putin is cruel or incompetent.
I really don't care which one. All I know is that the bad guys here don't like him. Same with Trump. I didn't vote for Trump in 2016 because I thought (and proven to be correct) that he wasn't a true conservative. But, Trump went against the establishment and the same energy and hatred they fed Trump is what they are giving Putin.
 
You do realize Saddam used chemical weapons on his own people. Ukraine has never used chemical weapons on Russia or anyone and is not a military threat to Russia no matter how much you try to defend Russia. The US has never used biological weapons in the history of the nation and haven't used chemical weapons since Vietnam if you count napalm. Your strawman arguments for Russia are ridiculous
I'm fully aware he used chemical weapons... those are the weapons we gave him in the 1980s when he was gassing Iranians...

And since we armed Iraq with chemical weapons, we by proxy did use chemical weapons. Saddam had our full blessing at the time.
 
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I really don't care which one. All I know is that the bad guys here don't like him. Same with Trump. I didn't vote for Trump in 2016 because I thought (and proven to be correct) that he wasn't a true conservative. But, Trump went against the establishment and the same energy and hatred they fed Trump is what they are giving Putin.
You like the guy so much, move to Russia where he imposed martial law on his own people. Go ahead, don’t belly ache that America this and that and still enjoy your freedoms. You say usa are cruel and dangerous but yet you seem to be enjoying the freedom of speech and inter webs.
 
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You like the guy so much, move to Russia where he imposed martial law on his own people. Go ahead, don’t belly ache that America this and that and still enjoy your freedoms. You say usa are cruel and dangerous but yet you seem to be enjoying the freedom of speech and inter webs.
I would rather live in an America that actually lives up to its promises. That can't happen with clowns like Biden and the Bushes and others that are running things.
 
It’s not about unnecessarily losing soldiers KIA...

Explain how our cause of losing thousands of Americans had more cause or justification than Russia’s?

Certainly isn’t for Putin, he appears quite content to throw Russian boys into the grave.

I don’t need to explain in anything. But I can determine in our 15 years of waging war we at least went to much greater lengths to protect our soldiers, than Vlad.
 
Hurry, for God's sake! The shelling will begin again in 20 minutes: Torn between hope and terror, survivors flee Russian onslaught for safety of Kyiv, writes RICHARD PENDLEBURY

By RICHARD PENDLEBURY and JAMIE WISEMAN FOR THE DAILY MAIL

Twenty minutes remain until the ‘humanitarian’ ceasefire ends. Anxiety is mounting. I want to leave here. But we must witness the inhumanity that is still taking place.

The light is fading and the feathery snow floats sideways rather than falling. This is, perhaps, the last chance of evacuation for the remaining citizens of the already ruined satellite towns of Irpin and Bucha.

Those who can – who have dared – leave their basements after almost two weeks under fire have spent this awful day in a conflicting state of hope and terror; first emerging from hiding, then struggling across the bone cold, fast flowing Irpin river to reach the buses that will take them to the relative safety of the Kyiv city limits beyond.

The warped remains of the now iconic road bridge – destroyed by the Ukrainian army to slow the Russian advance – frames this exodus across a makeshift pontoon of planks, only inches above the water.

But the clock is ticking. Twenty minutes to 3pm. The window is closing. War is about to resume.

For days the Russians have scoured the neighbourhoods with heavy mortars and artillery. Earlier this week a fleeing family was killed by shelling, here on Popovic Street outside the shattered church, only 30 yards away from where I write. A Ukrainian soldier reminds me of this tragedy by showing the video footage he shot of the aftermath on his iPhone: a dead boy in the foetal position in his dark anorak, on the pavement, bleeding as someone tries to cover him with a black bin bag.

Hurry everyone, for God’s sake, hurry.

55161883-10596019-Tamara_celebrated_her_87th_birthday_in_her_basement_under_fire_N-a-21_1646864517983.jpg

Tamara ‘celebrated’ her 87th birthday in her basement, under fire. Now, shuffling behind a Zimmer frame, and clad in house slippers, mauve scarf and sheepskin jerkin, she refuses to be carried to the cargo van that will take her into Kyiv centre

55161885-10596019-Luda_is_also_weeping_with_shock_I_saw_the_Russians_by_my_house_s-a-23_1646864518012.jpg

Luda is also weeping with shock. ‘I saw the Russians by my house,’ she says

55162743-10596019-image-a-28_1646864594533.jpg

The road from central Kyiv to the Irpin frontline is unsettlingly short – it is just four miles outside the city limits – but most local drivers are simply not prepared to go there

55162745-10596019-image-a-31_1646864596936.jpg

The light is fading and the feathery snow floats sideways rather than falling. This is, perhaps, the last chance of evacuation for the remaining citizens of the already ruined satellite towns of Irpin and Bucha

55162733-10596019-image-a-34_1646864601689.jpg

Those who can – who have dared – leave their basements after almost two weeks under fire have spent this awful day in a conflicting state of hope and terror; first emerging from hiding, then struggling across the bone cold, fast flowing Irpin river to reach the buses that will take them to the relative safety of the Kyiv city limits beyond

55162711-10596019-image-a-39_1646864610814.jpg

Terrified Ukrainian refugees escape from the town of Irpin and arrive in Svyatoshyns'kyi outside Kyiv

55162707-10596019-Tamara_refused_all_help_and_made_her_way_to_transport_where_she_-a-5_1646869346202.jpg

Tamara refused all help and made her way to transport, where she spoke to the Mail's Richard Pendlebury

55162697-10596019-image-a-49_1646864783131.jpg

Those who can – who have dared – leave their basements after almost two weeks under fire have spent this awful day in a conflicting state of hope and terror; first emerging from hiding, then struggling across the bone cold, fast flowing Irpin river to reach the buses that will take them to the relative safety of the Kyiv city limits beyond

55162705-10596019-Refugees_sob_as_they_escape_the_town_of_Irpin_and_make_towards_t-a-10_1646869346261.jpg

Refugees sob as they escape the town of Irpin and make towards the capital city Kyiv

Ukraine war: Torn between hope and terror, survivors flee Russian onslaught for safety of Kyiv | Daily Mail Online
 
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Certainly isn’t for Putin, he appears quite content to throw Russian boys into the grave.

I don’t need to explain in anything. But I can determine in our 15 years of waging war we at least went to much greater lengths to protect our soldiers, than Vlad.

Of course you can’t explain the difference...

You need to explain how Putin disregards Russian life fighting on his border....while multiple US Presidents threw away US lives far across the globe...please explain?
 
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Of course you can’t explain the difference...

You need to explain how Putin disregards Russian life fighting on his border....while multiple US Presidents threw away US lives far across the globe...please explain?

Ah yes, on his border, so the cause is just? Lol.

Conscripted boys sent to die to prevent the Ukrainian invasion. Again, lol.
 

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