War in Ukraine

#17,702
#17,702
hog88 said:
The parameters should be simple yet we have too many people like Luther in our government who feel those parameters should include feelings. And they should be shouted down at every turn.
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Ok. Then people should go with reasoning. And I feel the reasoning of “would you send yer kid” is lazy and thoughtless.

I’m sure you(you as in anyone) have better reasoning. Use that.
 
#17,704
#17,704
hog88 said:
Are you daft or something? War as a last resort to defend the US or as a result of an attack on us.
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You do an actual across the board true random draft (no outs for bone spurs, college, conscientious objector, etc) and see how many of these people QUICKLY change their minds on use of US military force.
 
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#17,705
#17,705
allvol123 said:
Ok. Then people should go with reasoning. And I feel the reasoning of “would you send yer kid” is lazy and thoughtless.

I’m sure you(you as in anyone) have better reasoning. Use that.
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I'm not advocating war to enforce some useless international courts ruling, if you are but unwilling to send your kid then you are a hypocrite.
 
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#17,708
#17,708
hog88 said:
I'm not advocating war to enforce some useless international courts ruling, if you are but unwilling to send your kid then you are a hypocrite.
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I’m not even focusing on any courts decision.

I merely making the point that that line of thinking is lazy and stupid.

Is there ever a case for war? Yes. Can that valid war be won with said existing army? Yes. Why do I need to be willing to send my kid to support it?
 
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#17,709
#17,709
allvol123 said:
Ok. Then people should go with reasoning. And I feel the reasoning of “would you send yer kid” is lazy and thoughtless.

I’m sure you(you as in anyone) have better reasoning. Use that.
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If I wouldn't fight, I can't support it. It's easy to virtue signal behind a keyboard while sending other people to do the fighting. Whether they voluntarily signed up or not doesn't really matter.

Amazing thing is, all these people that want to send people to fight on their behalf, have the opportunity to go over there and join Ukraine's foreign fighters.
 
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#17,711
#17,711
allvol123 said:
What is MIC?

I’m sure they do, as the orders start from the elected. But it shouldn’t. We should have defined criteria for what, when, and why we engage. Not a war based on what emotions can get ginned up. That cuts both ways.
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Military Industrial Complex. The Raytheons and who ever employs @NorthDallas40 , :), of the world.

How the war is fought should not be up to emotions, but it should be considered in the decisions of to fight or not. You are seeing the issue with Russian conscripts. They dont want to be there, and by every reckoning they arent doing a good job.

A war with Russia would require mobilizing more of our population than is already enlisted. So it should absolutely matter to all of us.
 
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#17,712
#17,712
volgr said:
If I wouldn't fight, I can't support it. It's easy to virtue signal behind a keyboard while sending other people to do the fighting. Whether they voluntarily signed up or not doesn't really matter.

Amazing thing is, all these people that want to send people to fight on their behalf, have the opportunity to go over there and join Ukraine's foreign fighters.
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Of course it matters. The people that signed up, literally signed up to offer the use of their life in service to the country. Why would others have to then be willing to do what they volunteers to do in order to not be a hypocrite?
 
#17,713
#17,713
allvol123 said:
I’m not even focusing on any courts decision.

I merely making the point that that line of thinking is lazy and stupid.

Is there ever a case for war? Yes. Can that valid war be won with said existing army? Yes. Why do I need to be willing to send my kid to support it?
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That was what the discussion was about. Luther advocating we/NATO send in our Armys to enforce the courts ruling. If he feels so strongly about it then he should encourage his kids to join up otherwise he's a hypocrite.
 
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#17,714
#17,714
LouderVol said:
Military Industrial Complex. The Raytheons and who ever employs @NorthDallas40 , :), of the world.

How the war is fought should not be up to emotions, but it should be considered in the decisions of to fight or not. You are seeing the issue with Russian conscripts. They dont want to be there, and by every reckoning they arent doing a good job.

A war with Russia would require mobilizing more of our population than is already enlisted. So it should absolutely matter to all of us.
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I guess I don’t ever envision a ground war with anyone that would require us increasing numbers via draft. Our technology I would think puts us above that fray. I can’t imagine a ground war with another major player on foreign grounds.
 
#17,716
#17,716
hog88 said:
That was what the discussion was about. Luther advocating we/NATO send in our Armys to enforce the courts ruling. If he feels so strongly about it then he should encourage his kids to join up otherwise he's a hypocrite.
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Ok that is fine. But I don’t agree with that one particular sentiment.
 
#17,719
#17,719
luthervol said:
What? My son chose to not join the military. I don't want him trying to pull over a drunk driver because he chose not to be a LEO.
I don't want him performing surgery because he chose not to be a surgeon. I don't want him representing someone in court because he chose not to be a lawyer.....I guess you get the point.
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So you’re happy to support action as long as somebody else’s kids do it.
 
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#17,720
#17,720
allvol123 said:
I guess I don’t ever envision a ground war with anyone that would require us increasing numbers via draft. Our technology I would think puts us above that fray. I can’t imagine a ground war with another major player on foreign grounds.
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But that's the situation being played out a ground war with Russia.

Russia is 25x the size (almost literally) afghanistan with a similar difference in population. How much of Russia would we have to take to get russia to capitulate?

And this assumes China doesnt get involved.

And it also assumes the war stays conventional and Putin/Russia dont go nuclear scorched earth on us.
 
#17,722
#17,722
Vol423 said:
Damn, DonjoVol. You're a broken record playing over and over again repeating the same nonsense in thread after thread.
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Broken record huh? I can say that about guys like you and Ricky as well. Same thing over and over and over. You're a little better. But some people really show their true colors on here.
 
#17,723
#17,723
LouderVol said:
Military Industrial Complex. The Raytheons and who ever employs @NorthDallas40 , :), of the world.

How the war is fought should not be up to emotions, but it should be considered in the decisions of to fight or not. You are seeing the issue with Russian conscripts. They dont want to be there, and by every reckoning they arent doing a good job.

A war with Russia would require mobilizing more of our population than is already enlisted. So it should absolutely matter to all of us.
Click to expand...
3BEE34DA-3737-4101-9548-6C8761D1DD76.jpeg
 
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#17,724
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