War in Ukraine

[IluvdoubleD's]

The hubris

actually correct and I knew it when I posted. I apologize. "control" was the wrong word, I meant "deal with".

 

[allvol123]

Is that what I said? Or did I clearly say that I don't believe anything they say?

Yes, you believe nothing they say. It is all lies to you. Putin is some godlike human that does nothing wrong according to you because a bunch of “guys” you don’t trust say the opposite of that. Perhaps you need to dig a little deeper.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I don't think you attempt to do any analysis of Putin on your own. It's just as simple as "This group of people I don't trust hates this guy, so I'll stick up for him."

Not exactly true. I only say that because there are not that many outlets that offer a counter narrative.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Yes, you believe nothing they say. It is all lies to you. Putin is some godlike human that does nothing wrong according to you because a bunch of “guys” you don’t trust say the opposite of that. Perhaps you need to dig a little deeper.

And I have said time and time again that Putin is likely no better or worse than any other leader out here. How me saying that is equivalent to godlike status is a headscratcher.

 

[IluvdoubleD's]

see how diplomacy works? Love thy neighbor. Turn your cheek to your enemy.

 

[05_never_again]

Not exactly true. I only say that because there are not that many outlets that offer a counter narrative.

The most popular show on US cable news (Tucker Carlson) offers a counter-narrative on this story on a nightly basis. RT offers a counter-narrative (which is complete party-line BS, but still, it's a counter-narrative). YouTube shows like Breaking Points and Rising offer a counter-narrative. Regardless, why would the lack of existence of a counter-narrative prevent you from coming up with your own opinion independent of what someone else said?

You make shortcuts in your thinking on this topic, which is interesting because you seem like an independent thinker on other topics. There are two sides to this story, and you hate one of the sides, so you just take the opposite position of whatever they say. It's lazy.

 

[05_never_again]

And I have said time and time again that Putin is likely no better or worse than any other leader out here. How me saying that is equivalent to godlike status is a headscratcher.

Yeah right. You think he's a hell of a lot better than our leaders. That is, unless, you think Putin is also a "vulture" and "parasite."

 

[volbound1700]

I have been arguing with Rasputin_Vol in this thread a lot but I don't think he or she is a Putin supporter or apologist.

I do think Rasputin takes the simple, easy rout of blaming USA for international problems and everything can be solved if USA stays out of everything and hides at home. This argument pays no credence to deep political rules such as soft power, regional hegemony, leverage, puppet states, global economics/trade, etc.

Let Rasputin play 500 hours of Europa Universalis 4 and he may change his tune.

 

[allvol123]

And I have said time and time again that Putin is likely no better or worse than any other leader out here. How me saying that is equivalent to godlike status is a headscratcher.

When you defend him from remarks about his wealth. You’re very defensive about him.

 

[85SugarVol]

Is Vladimir Putin Secretly The Richest Person In The World?

Ras’ boy walking around with a $500k Patek

 

[hog88]

Ras’ boy walking around with a $500k Patek

And he's spent his whole life as a government employee.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

The most popular show on US cable news (Tucker Carlson) offers a counter-narrative on this story on a nightly basis. RT offers a counter-narrative (which is complete party-line BS, but still, it's a counter-narrative). YouTube shows like Breaking Points and Rising offer a counter-narrative. Regardless, why would the lack of existence of a counter-narrative prevent you from coming up with your own opinion independent of what someone else said?

You make shortcuts in your thinking on this topic, which is interesting because you seem like an independent thinker on other topics. There are two sides to this story, and you hate one of the sides, so you just take the opposite position of whatever they say. It's lazy.

I clearly said "not that many outlets". You named two (Tucker and RT). How is that a short cut in thinking?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Yeah right. You think he's a hell of a lot better than our leaders. That is, unless, you think Putin is also a "vulture" and "parasite."

I would take Putin over Obama, GWB and Biden. Putin and Trump would be a push.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I have been arguing with Rasputin_Vol in this thread a lot but I don't think he or she is a Putin supporter or apologist.

I do think Rasputin takes the simple, easy rout of blaming USA for international problems and everything can be solved if USA stays out of everything and hides at home. This argument pays no credence to deep political rules such as soft power, regional hegemony, leverage, puppet states, global economics/trade, etc.

Let Rasputin play 500 hours of Europa Universalis 4 and he may change his tune.

I'm not saying we need to just hide at home. I'm saying that we should engage in trade and commerce with other nations, but have (military) alliances with as few as possible (ideally no one). Also, other regional powers need to step up and handle their own business.

The main reasons for my position are that we don't have the resources and we have bigger problems here at home. Both of those are due to the people running things. Putin is having to deal with the same group of people. The entire planet is dealing with these people. Putin, for better or for worse, is the strongest person/leader out here than is trying to stand up to them. Coincidently, anyone that stands up to the US is called a dictator or is put on some Axis of Evil list.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

When you defend him from remarks about his wealth. You’re very defensive about him.

I know as much about his wealth as you do. Who knows what the truth is. I just know that I'm not going to believe anything that is reported about Putin from The West.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

And he's spent his whole life as a government employee.

Not much different than the politicians here in America.

 

[85SugarVol]

And he's spent his whole life as a government employee.

Prob learned it from watching ours here.

 

[allvol123]

I know as much about his wealth as you do. Who knows what the truth is. I just know that I'm not going to believe anything that is reported about Putin from The West.

You’re so ready to refute any perceived negative comment. The crush would be unbelievable if I didn’t actually witness it.

 

[05_never_again]

I clearly said "not that many outlets". You named two (Tucker and RT). How is that a short cut in thinking?

I mean, Tucker is a pretty big one. It's the most watched show on US cable news. There are also plenty of people who aren't on cable TV who present an alternative, non-establishment viewpoint, from both the left and the right. Nobody is listening to the ex-CIA/NSA/military people CNN trots out anyway. 95% of the mainstream, establishment talking points on Russia are within legacy media, which is dying.

I say it is a shortcut in your thinking because everything Putin does, by definition, must be good/correct/justified/a good faith effort/whatever positive superlative you wish because you hate the people opposing him. The world is far more nuanced than that. I'll concede that you don't necessarily come in here and overtly slobber all over him, but you really quickly push back on even the slightest bit of any criticism of him, even on a really obvious point like someone saying he's corrupt.

 

[volbound1700]

I'm not saying we need to just hide at home. I'm saying that we should engage in trade and commerce with other nations, but have (military) alliances with as few as possible (ideally no one). Also, other regional powers need to step up and handle their own business.

The main reasons for my position are that we don't have the resources and we have bigger problems here at home. Both of those are due to the people running things. Putin is having to deal with the same group of people. The entire planet is dealing with these people. Putin, for better or for worse, is the strongest person/leader out here than is trying to stand up to them. Coincidently, anyone that stands up to the US is called a dictator or is put on some Axis of Evil list.

You cannot trade with countries if they get invaded. There is what is called regional hegemony.

Is the United States Imperial abroad? Kind of. There are countries like South Korea, Taiwan, Japan, Philippines, Australia, New Zealand, Israel, Kuwait, European Union, Costa Rica, Colombia, etc. that are USA influenced states. These states primarily interact and trade with USA or its allies. They are under defense obligations with the USA and would support the USA in any real conflict. USA is allowed to have military bases in many of these countries.

Yet there is no direct control. If USA doesn't have influence over these regions, than someone else like China or Russia will influence them. Which means, they are now the trade power, they now have the military bases, and they now control the region.

If the USA pulls out of a region, it surrenders that region, its resources, etc. It impacts trade, finances, and our standard of living. The USA doesn't necessarily try to control regions, it just tries to create a world system based on its values. Many of these nations are happy and welcome these values, some may do it just because they see the USA as the lesser evil compared to being under the influence of a nation like China.

Sure it is direct rule like the British Empire but our actions have built our country and the modern world. You pull out, it weakens this world vision.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I say it is a shortcut in your thinking because everything Putin does, by definition, must be good/correct/justified/a good faith effort/whatever positive superlative you wish because you hate the people opposing him.

That is a very simplistic opinion you have of where I stand. Look, I don't owe Putin money and or owe him any favors. I'm sure he has his issues just like every other leader out here. I've said that repeatedly.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

You cannot trade with countries if they get invaded. There is what is called regional hegemony.

Is the United States Imperial abroad? Kind of. There are countries like South Korea, Taiwan, Japan, Philippines, Australia, New Zealand, Israel, Kuwait, European Union, Costa Rica, Colombia, etc. that are USA influenced states. These states primarily interact and trade with USA or its allies. They are under defense obligations with the USA and would support the USA in any real conflict. USA is allowed to have military bases in many of these countries.

Well first off, you say "regional hegemony" and then rattle off countries on 5 continents. Sounds like a "global" hegemony.

Second, when any other country tries to establish regional hegemony and that country is not one of our allies, we quickly label them an enemy or threat to the region. That's ridiculous.

Yet there is no direct control. If USA doesn't have influence over these regions, than someone else like China or Russia will influence them. Which means, they are now the trade power, they now have the military bases, and they now control the region.

If the USA pulls out of a region, it surrenders that region, its resources, etc. It impacts trade, finances, and our standard of living. The USA doesn't necessarily try to control regions, it just tries to create a world system based on its values.

You seem to be projecting... assuming that these other countries would do the same thing to us that we usually do to countries that don't side with us. Yet as far as I know, the United States is the largest proponent of sanctions, embargos or other anti-commercial actions on the planet. Not saying that other countries don't do it either. I'm saying we are the largest country... and it isn't even close.

Many of these nations are happy and welcome these values, some may do it just because they see the USA as the lesser evil compared to being under the influence of a nation like China.

We have a very wicked, superficial, nihilistic and destructive culture that is eating us alive in this country right now. Many countries are pushing back on this American culture that has gained traction over the last 2-3 decades.

Sure it is direct rule like the British Empire but our actions have built our country and the modern world. You pull out, it weakens this world vision.

We are not just enslaving the world with our fraudulent USD system and global military, but we are also enslaving our own people with those same tools.

 

[BreatheUT]

I would take Putin over Obama, GWB and Biden. Putin and Trump would be a push.

If Putin and Trump are a push then you take Trump over Putin on who has an upper hand because Putin has the experience but Trump has the instincts. Plus when it's even look who commands the greatest military on the face of the earth.

But like Ron Zook proved at Florida, even talent can't save you when the commander in chief is 5 steps behind.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

The US needs to get it's puppet agents in Ukraine on the same sheet of music.

White House, Ukraine At Odds Over Threat Of Russian Invasion In Awkward Back & Forth | ZeroHedge

With all eyes on Ukraine and Russia, officials in Washington and Kyiv don’t seem to be on the same page. Ukrainian officials are urging calm and say a Russian incursion isn’t imminent. But over in Washington, the scaremongering continues.

When faced with Ukraine’s assessment of the situation, White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki insisted that Russia could invade at any moment. Asked if the US still believes the threat is "imminent," Psaki replied, "correct."

In Kyiv, Ukrainian Defense Minister Oleksii Reznikov told parliament that "as of today, there are no grounds to believe” Russia will invade imminently, The Associated Press reported. "Don’t worry, sleep well," Reznikov said. "No need to have your bags packed."

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky also called for calm on Tuesday. "We are strong enough to keep everything under control and derail any attempts at destabilization," he said. Addressing Washington’s decision to order the families of US diplomats in Ukraine to leave the country, Zelensky said the move "doesn’t necessarily signal an inevitable escalation and is part of a complex diplomatic game."

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Russia, Ukraine Agree To Uphold Donbas Ceasefire In Normandy Format Talks | ZeroHedge

Officials from Russia and Ukraine met in Paris on Wednesday and held what Moscow described as "tough" talks. Despite whatever difficulties there were, the two sides agreed that the ceasefire in Ukraine’s eastern Donbas region must be upheld.

German and French officials were also present for the meeting, which lasted eight hours. The four countries started holding talks together after the Donbas war started in 2014 in a forum known as the Normandy format.