War in Ukraine

[MontyPython]

Good read...

“America First” MAGA Tough Guys Are Modern-Day Neville Chamberlains


"... Remember when Mitt Romney was mercilessly mocked by President Barack Obama in a 2012 presidential debate for saying Russia was “our No. 1 geopolitical foe”? American conservatism has shifted 180 degrees regarding Russia (and numerous other topics) in the decade since.

To be sure, in the wake of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan it is understandable that many Americans are afraid of being drawn into another quagmire. But the opposite impulse—the desire to retreat from the world (or looking the other way while bullies dominate other countries)—is equally dangerous and provocative.

As Neville Chamberlain belatedly learned, Munich was an illusory, temporary fix. Bullies have to be confronted at some point.

Again, I’m not suggesting that Crimea is an existential threat to America. But the notion of favoring Vladimir Putin, who is cynically using the Russian Orthodox Church for political purposes, over your own country, is absurd. Looking the other way at an authoritarian aggression will only invite more aggression.

And the urge to do so is turning America First elites into today’s Neville Chamberlains."

 

[FLVOL_79]

Got a family member who gets an all expense paid trip to Eastern Europe over this. Dudes married though so he won't have as much fun as I would have had.

 

[MontyPython]

Got a family member who gets an all expense paid trip to Eastern Europe over this. Dudes married though so he won't have as much fun as I would have had.

Ukrainian women are spectacular. Lots of J1 exchange students here in the summer.

 

[hog88]

You need to get out more and see the world. In business meetings with countries all over the globe, they want to trade and work with USA. I have meetings with people from Turkey, Germany, Belgium, France, Japan, South Korea, Brazil, etc. They are all concerned about Chinese aggression, and not the USA.

They admire our culture and are smart enough to realize that our culture is not defined by social media which is full of the dregs of our society and, in reality, not a true vision of America despite its attempt to depict itself that way.

Honestly, do you think you are more intelligent than me or people on this board? Set in the mirror and ask yourself that. Do you have the world experiences that I do? Do you think you are smarter than people in the Pentagon, State Department, etc.?

You sure act like it. You act like the entire world is idiots and you are the one person that knows all of the truth. Perhaps sit down and consider that for a second and maybe consider the possibility that most of what you are spouting out is wrong, perhaps.

From what I have seen over the past 20 plus years, most people are smarter than the ones in the Pentagon and at State.

 

[LouderVol]

I have no idea what to believe or disbelieve about the guy. All I do know is that we have intelligence agencies here at home that have a track record of being dishonest. I err on the side of not believing hardly anything these guys say.

But you buy up the russian state owned media with no salt.

 

[Vol737]

From what I have seen over the past 20 plus years, most people are smarter than the ones in the Pentagon and at State.

I’ve known, worked with quite a few people that have had Pentagon jobs, etc., my cousin who I speak with regularly being one of them. All very bright individuals and waaay smarter than I ever dreamed of being. Knowing these individuals, my first instinct is to think we are very fortunate to have a lot of these individuals serve in these positions. They truly go in with the best intentions of service to the country and making a difference. However, I believe there is a certain level of group think that creeps in and/or assimilating to a culture or thought process along the way to advance up the ladder and build the résumé, and they will pretty much tell you that once they’ve separated from that job. Probably not unlike any other job in corporate America.

 

[KB5252]

Oh really? Should I calm down or should you and Biden calm down?

Ukraine's President Tells Biden To "Calm Down" In Phone Call | ZeroHedge



CNN and mainstream media in general have of late seemed intent on hyping and stoking tensions to the point of armed conflict.

The "long phone conversation" with Biden was Zelensky's second one this month. Again, compare the low key statement of Ukraine's president himself with what Biden reportedly said to him concerning the "level" of the threat, supposedly with Kiev itself in the crosshairs...

Yes, those pesky neo cons at CNN

 

[hog88]

I’ve known, worked with quite a few people that have had Pentagon jobs, etc., my cousin who I speak with regularly being one of them. All very bright individuals and waaay smarter than I ever dreamed of being. Knowing these individuals, my first instinct is to think we are very fortunate to have a lot of these individuals serve in these positions. They truly go in with the best intentions of service to the country and making a difference. However, I believe there is a certain level of group think that creeps in and/or assimilating to a culture or thought process along the way to advance up the ladder and build the résumé, and they will pretty much tell you that once they’ve separated from that job. Probably not unlike any other job in corporate America.

Wife's step brother is a recently retired O-6, he was about to be tossed out of the Army as an artillery officer after he got passed over for O-3 a couple times. His dad was a General and got him into the foreign service branch so he served in the Pentagon, various European embassies and NATO, he's smart as a whip but I wouldn't turn my back on him for 1 second. He'd stab his best friend in the back then stand on his corpse to reach 1 rung higher on the ladder.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Good read...

“America First” MAGA Tough Guys Are Modern-Day Neville Chamberlains


"... Remember when Mitt Romney was mercilessly mocked by President Barack Obama in a 2012 presidential debate for saying Russia was “our No. 1 geopolitical foe”? American conservatism has shifted 180 degrees regarding Russia (and numerous other topics) in the decade since.

To be sure, in the wake of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan it is understandable that many Americans are afraid of being drawn into another quagmire. But the opposite impulse—the desire to retreat from the world (or looking the other way while bullies dominate other countries)—is equally dangerous and provocative.

As Neville Chamberlain belatedly learned, Munich was an illusory, temporary fix. Bullies have to be confronted at some point.

Again, I’m not suggesting that Crimea is an existential threat to America. But the notion of favoring Vladimir Putin, who is cynically using the Russian Orthodox Church for political purposes, over your own country, is absurd. Looking the other way at an authoritarian aggression will only invite more aggression.

And the urge to do so is turning America First elites into today’s Neville Chamberlains."

America looking for a boogeyman. Afganistan and Syria are off the table so I guess we'll demonize Russia. Maybe China and Iran, also.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Yes, those pesky neo cons at CNN

May as well be neocons. They are beating the same war drums.

 

[KB5252]

May as well be neocons. They are beating the same war drums.

If anyone is beating the war drum it is Putin. He's mobilized his forces in the most threatening manner possible. He's taking an aggressive stance here, he's not digging in defensively, he's prepared an invasion.

Odd for someone who says they don't want war isn't it?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

If anyone is beating the war drum it is Putin. He's mobilized his forces in the most threatening manner possible. He's taking an aggressive stance here, he's not digging in defensively, he's prepared an invasion.

Odd for someone who says they don't want war isn't it?

Zelensky doesn't seem to think so.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Oh really? Should I calm down or should you and Biden calm down?

Ukraine's President Tells Biden To "Calm Down" In Phone Call | ZeroHedge



CNN and mainstream media in general have of late seemed intent on hyping and stoking tensions to the point of armed conflict.

The "long phone conversation" with Biden was Zelensky's second one this month. Again, compare the low key statement of Ukraine's president himself with what Biden reportedly said to him concerning the "level" of the threat, supposedly with Kiev itself in the crosshairs...

Can we get a straight story of what's going on?

CNN In Meltdown Mode Over Biden-Ukraine Phone Call Fiasco | ZeroHedge

 

[AirVol]

Release the phone transcript Joe. Could be impeachable.

 

[KB5252]

Zelensky doesn't seem to think so.

He knows Putin won't back down, his actions prove as much. He's committed. He also knows no one else has the resolve Putin does. The longer he can keep both sides talking the better, it could mean losing half the country as opposed to losing it all.

And you don't poke the bear...,. Russia is the bear.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Why is this idiot Austin continually bringing up Article 5 in this press conference? If troops of a NATO member are not in their sovereign territory and they are attacked Article 5 doesn’t apply. And at least right now Article 5 does not extend to Ukraine.

 

[Burhead]

Russia has moved supplies of blood to the region another indication of a higher level readiness we haven’t seen before.

 

[LouderVol]

I wonder which narrative will break down first: The left's narrative about COVID or the neocons narrative about Russia/Ukraine?

The narrative that Russia seized Crimea and Donbas? That's not a narrative. Russia has redrawn their own maps.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Why is this idiot Austin continually bringing up Article 5 in this press conference? If troops of a NATO member are not in their sovereign territory and they are attacked Article 5 doesn’t apply. And at least right now Article 5 does not extend to Ukraine.

Why does that matter? We can make the rules up as we go.

They're on a mission from God.

 

[volbound1700]

I constantly self-evaluate and I have modified my thinking a lot over the last 10-15 years. I was probably in line with most of the board and the majority of people in here until around 2008. Really got my first sense of doubt before then when we invaded Iraq the 2nd time but was perplexed during the economic crash in 2008.

I admit that I have not traveled as extensively as probably you or others, but I have met plenty of people from different backgrounds and cultures just in regular life. I also have an interest in learning about cultures. One thing I do know is that we generally all have a lot more in common with each other than what the media or neocons would have you believe. Their main goal is pushing division and forcing a wedge amongst people.

I think you are upset because I am different because I don't believe this country is going in the right direction by remaining a militaristic police force that inserts itself into regional conflicts across the globe. I don't think that domestically, we have a system that gives a damn about average Americans and only sees us as sheep to fleece.

No, I think you paint all conflicts with a single paint brush. I agree with you on some instances (especially Vietnam which was probably our worse intervention IMO). However, there is a difference between not being world police and totally disengaging. Total disengagement does not work from a historical perspective.

Going on the last comment, our system was designed to be freedom heavy and not focus on people. We have actually tampered with our system to move more and more toward the direction you are actually wanting since the 1920s. You say our system doesn't care but we give away billions in medicare, medicaid, education, welfare, etc. I would call that caring. These are BY FAR our highest expenses from a governmental perspective. Each time the government steps in as a parent, though, the average citizen is treated more and more like a child in the parent-child relationship. Decisions are taken away from them (i.e. freedoms). You cannot have it both ways, you cannot have a system that provides freedom but enforces a comfortable standard of living. In a true free enterprise system focused on freedom, it is up to you to determine your standard of living and unfortunately luck plays a role as well. It is fated that one business start-up turns into 100 million company while the other goes bankrupt and the potential CEO loses his house. It is just the way the world works unfortunately.

Watch Enemy at the Gates. There is a comment in it by one of the characters that even in a perfect Communist System, there will still always be rich and poor. Someone's land is going to be a little better even though they have the same acre. Only one of two people are going to get the girl (the background of the comment). Some people are going to be more popular, more athletic, more healthy, etc.

The world is just naturally unfair and tough.

 

[volbound1700]

Look RAS and I rarely agree. But shouting at someone, why don't you realize I am smarter then you, is a terrible approach to engaging in conversation.

I was shouting at him?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

No, I think you paint all conflicts with a single paint brush. I agree with you on some instances (especially Vietnam which was probably our worse intervention IMO). However, there is a difference between not being world police and totally disengaging. Total disengagement does not work from a historical perspective.

Going on the last comment, our system was designed to be freedom heavy and not focus on people. We have actually tampered with our system to move more and more toward the direction you are actually wanting since the 1920s. You say our system doesn't care but we give away billions in medicare, medicaid, education, welfare, etc. I would call that caring. These are BY FAR our highest expenses from a governmental perspective. Each time the government steps in as a parent, though, the average citizen is treated more and more like a child in the parent-child relationship. Decisions are taken away from them (i.e. freedoms). You cannot have it both ways, you cannot have a system that provides freedom but enforces a comfortable standard of living. In a true free enterprise system focused on freedom, it is up to you to determine your standard of living and unfortunately luck plays a role as well. It is fated that one business start-up turns into 100 million company while the other goes bankrupt and the potential CEO loses his house. It is just the way the world works unfortunately.

Watch Enemy at the Gates. There is a comment in it by one of the characters that even in a perfect Communist System, there will still always be rich and poor. Someone's land is going to be a little better even though they have the same acre. Only one of two people are going to get the girl (the background of the comment). Some people are going to be more popular, more athletic, more healthy, etc.

The world is just naturally unfair and tough.

To be clear, when I say this country doesn't give a damn about average Americans, I'm not talking about social programs or entitlements. I'm talking about simply following the Constitution and respecting basic liberties.

Also, I'm talking about at the very least pulling away from all of these military escapades until we get our own house in order. Until we do that, we have no business defending Ukraine's borders when we can't (or don't) defend our own. It really isn't that hard to understand.

 

[volbound1700]

To be clear, when I say this country doesn't give a damn about average Americans, I'm not talking about social programs or entitlements. I'm talking about simply following the Constitution and respecting basic liberties.

Got it. I cannot disagree with you there. The Government seems very willing to trample all over eveyone's rights. The issue, though, is that they typically have the support of the people in a lot of incidents. I think there is a sizable number of Americans who would totally agree with dismantling the Constitution and moving more towards a Soviet-style government. Funny how they had and distrust rich companies but think the government would not be subject or capable of the same greedy abuses as these CEOs that they complain about.

 

[NEO]

Russia has moved supplies of blood to the region another indication of a higher level readiness we haven’t seen before.

Russia kicked Germany’s ass in WW2.

We probably don’t win that war or atleast as fast if Russia doesn’t rip them a new one like they did.

Nobody wants to fight Russia on the ground and especially in the winter.

They are extremely patriotic, even in this day of me first, and will die in droves for their country.

Ukraine knows this. They want the US completely out of this because a war will simply rip their county apart and Russia will still eventually win.

If Russia does decide to go to actual war, I mean real war, Ukraine is theirs.

 

[hog88]

Russia kicked Germany’s ass in WW2.

We probably don’t win that war or atleast as fast if Russia doesn’t rip them a new one like they did.

Nobody wants to fight Russia on the ground and especially in the winter.

They are extremely patriotic, even in this day of me first, and will die in droves for their country.

Ukraine knows this. They want the US completely out of this because a war will simply rip their county apart and Russia will still eventually win.

If Russia does decide to go to actual war, I mean real war, Ukraine is theirs.

Russia got and was getting it's ass kicked until lend/lease started. We supplied them and let them spill their blood in a war of attrition to weaken Germany before we got into it on the continent.