War in Ukraine

[allvol123]

There is no international win for Putin. The only win left on the table for him now it to take Ukraine and remain in power.

Honestly I don’t even see that as a win. It won’t work.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

You serious Clark? The only thing keeping him in power was his use of the military against how's people and chemical weapons, they were coming for him. If they were happy why the appeal to Putin to prop him up?

Because he wasn't fighting the people, he was fighting US armed mercenaries (The Free Syrian Army and ISIS).

 

[allvol123]

My guess is that much of what you read was propaganda or just plain wrong.

I generally take the WSJ stuff as level headed and informed.

 

[Hunerwadel]

If they're like the rest of Russia's military they're probably just lost.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

And speaking of arming mercenaries in Syria. Look how that turned out. We sent all of those arms to Syria and the somehow ended up in the hands of ISIS.

Now look at what we are doing in Ukraine. Sending over all of these arms to Eastern Europe. Now how much if that is going to get to the Ukraine Army and how much is going to go to the black market? So now you are potentially flooding Eastern Europe with all of these weapons, including weapons that can take out airliners, and allowing them to flow from Eastern European markets to maybe terror cells in Western Europe or the Middle East.

 

[norrislakevol]

Not likely. Not necessarily needing to invade, but with a country that important on Russia's border, I think there is always going to be some interaction going on.

No different than the US being heavily involved in our neighbors political affairs.

So, you think that Putin would have never threatened other countries? Others on his doorstep? Ukraine isn't the only one here.

 

[KB5252]

He didn't use chemical weapons on his people. Stop saying that. It has been debunked by several different sources and investigators.

He did, the investigations I've seen stated both he and rebels both used chemical weapons.

 

[AM64]

They are not going to occupy it - cant imagine Putin would be so stupid. They will appoint some friendly gov and then back off. As long as the new gov is basically hostile to NATO troops and CIA funded groups then Russia has its strategic buffer zone. I am sure he would like to straight up take over but they simply dont have the resources for that. Pointless getting shot at all the time unless you fully subjugate and that just does not meet his objectives.

Meanwhile, China will swoop in to offer great terms on their belt and road initiative and own it when Ukraine defaults.

That makes perfect sense; but with the mood Ukrainians are in, I'd turn down the Russian stooge job. Vlad probably should have a bunch of them lined up.

 

[AM64]

I cannot imagine any adroit moves coming from our current state dept or genius personal diplomacy from bought and paid for Joe - but if indeed, they do get the Chinese to give Putin a stiff one, I will none the less give them full marks for it and praise, deserved or not.

More likely Xi will have figured out there is some benefit to be gained. Either that or he will condemn Russia publicly to give cover to the tech companies and manufacturers - all the while continuing to trade and do business with Russia. Its the better play really.

There's got to be something somewhere, but I'm having a hard time figuring out historically when diplomats from any country didn't screw the job. It's almost like diplomat school and bought ambassadorships aren't working out well at all.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

So, you think that Putin would have never threatened other countries? Others on his doorstep? Ukraine isn't the only one here.

I think Russia would likely have a hand in most of the countries that are on its western border because of the security risks.

 

[AM64]

I don't see anyone in Syria angry about Assad's leadership.

Kind of tough to be angry about Assad's leadership when you are dead, and not wise to make it known if you are a live Syrian and don't want to be dead.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Kind of tough to be angry about Assad's leadership when you are dead, and not wise to make it known if you are a live Syrian and don't want to be dead.

 

[AM64]

What does this sound like??

'Scum and traitors': Under pressure over Ukraine, Putin turns his ire on Russians

Sounds like some Russians should have gotten out of Dodge a couple of weeks ago.

 

[Vol423]

I think Russia would likely have a hand in most of the countries that are on its western border because of the security risks.

Lol…but Russia was never going to invade Ukraine.

 

[volbound1700]

Russians speak for themselves through elections and polling. No, the US has no moral high ground after the last 30 years.

That is a total wrong statement but even if it was right you are total wrong in another one.

Logically, you need to do everything to keep your country on top and fight for your country. If not, it can be conquered and defeated. The enemy can **** your wife (mom or sister if not married), burn your house down, steal your money, etc. Nothing is worse than being a defeated nation and conquered. Look at the Ukrainians right now, I doubt you would want to be them.

 

[volbound1700]

Because he wasn't fighting the people, he was fighting US armed mercenaries (The Free Syrian Army and ISIS).

And the Kurdish people who have been brutalized by Turks, Syrians, and Iraqis for centuries. Convenient that you left them out.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Well, there are plenty of reasons - several of which are self-serving which should appeal to you.

You could go with the standard government rationale:

That high level of U.S. involvement is necessary, because "this is about more than just Russia and Ukraine."

"It's about standing for what we believe in, for the future that we want for our world, for liberty, the right of countless countries to choose their own destiny, and the right of people to determine their own futures, or the principle that a country can't change its neighbor's borders by force," Biden said. "If we do not stand for freedom where it is at risk today, we'll surely pay a steeper price tomorrow."

Or you could see the moral / humanitarian aspects of helping fellow human beings being killed and their property absconded for no legitimate reason.

Or, lastly, you could recognize that Ukraine may only be the first country to be invaded by Russia, thereby likely leading to an even larger conflict for us in the future:
View attachment 440062

So basically no good reason. And your moral crap can go in file 13. Especially when our government lets people in its own country suffer.

 

[volfanhill]

WTF People in here talking about Putin wining elections as proof the people have choice? GTFO he jails all adversaries. Some of you are delusional.

 

[volgr]

Now, if Ukraine keeps killing Russians at an alarming rate then will you see it the same way? just curious.

We have no dog in their fight. Wont hurt my feelings to see Putin return with his tail between his legs.

 

[Vol737]

Russians speak for themselves through elections and polling. No, the US has no moral high ground after the last 30 years.

We don’t necessarily have the moral high ground, but Russia’s entire election system is a complete farce. Russians don’t speak for themselves. If they did, they would be intimately familiar with Siberia and other locations unknown.

 

[volgr]

But you don't extend that same appraisal to Ukrainians electing Zelensky and fighting Russia; why is that?

Zelensky was elected because he promised to ease tensions with Russia and stop the fighting in east Ukraine. Neither of which happened, actually the opposite.

 

[volgr]

We don’t necessarily have the moral high ground, but Russia’s entire election system is a complete farce. Russians don’t speak for themselves. If they did, they would be intimately familiar with Siberia and other locations unknown.

Yeah, thanks for regurgitating mainstream news. Real insight there.

 

[volgr]

WTF People in here talking about Putin wining elections as proof the people have choice? GTFO he jails all adversaries. Some of you are delusional.

Russian Presidential elections are as legitimate as American Presidential elections. You guys need to update your talking points.

 

[volfanhill]

Russian Presidential elections are as legitimate as American Presidential elections. You guys need to update your talking points.

You aren't nearly as discerning as you think you are.

 

[evillawyer]