War in Ukraine

[LouderVol]

I don't see anyone in Syria angry about Assad's leadership.

What? He was fighting a civil war before he released all the ISIS leaders we gave them.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I am very familiar with Russian government purges as should you be or anyone who has studied history

You mean the Soviet Union purges? You're talking about that history?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

You do understand that you're asserting our government is guilty of the same behavior as Putin, right?

Not the same. Russia is having to act in response to US actions. Russia isn't out here provoking conflicts for some abstract geopolitical gamesmanship.

The only thing similar about the US and Russia is that they both used their military to achieve certain objectives. The US objectives were bogus BS (no reason at all to be in Syria and Ukraine or supporting belligerents in these areas) and Russia used their military in response to maintain the status quo in these areas or stabilize an area.

Motive goes a long way to distinguish the two actions.

 

[luthervol]

Maybe we should follow that advice instead of pushing to start WWIII over Ukraine.

I'm not sure giving in to someone who says "do as I wish or I will commit war crimes and maybe go nuclear" is the best long term strategy.

 

[evillawyer]

Julian Assange, Edward Snowden, and just about any social media site that promotes a counter narrative than the Biden White House.

Are Assange and Snowden sitting in US jails?

Still waiting for you to tell me who the US has jailed or exiled.

 

[KB5252]

Putin didn't over throw the democratically elected leader in 2014. All of this started after the US staged that coup and color revolution.

See my prior posts, the people of Ukraine overthrew an elected president that duped them and was a Russian puppet.

 

[Weezer]

Not the same. Russia is having to act in response to US actions. Russia isn't out here provoking conflicts for some abstract geopolitical gamesmanship.

The only thing similar about the US and Russia is that they both used their military to achieve certain objectives. The US objectives were bogus BS (no reason at all to be in Syria and Ukraine or supporting belligerents in these areas) and Russia used their military in response to maintain the status quo in these areas or stabilize an area.

Motive goes a long way to distinguish the two actions.

FFS, Russia invaded a sovereign nation. For all of your bluster, Ukrainians elected Zelensky. They've chosen to fight the Russians. That alone proves you're spouting a bunch of BS. Ukraine was not threatening Russia. You keep making assertions that make you look like a dumbass. Putin is provoking ****, but apparently your head is so far up his ass you haven't noticed.

 

[KB5252]

You don't have any idea what kind of weaponry he is using. Neither one of us does. You're just parroting what this corrupt media is telling you.

But don't worry, the truth will all be revealed soon.

Well, if he's using smart weapons he's purposefully targeting soft civilian targets. I'm trying to give Putin the benefit of the doubt here.

 

[evillawyer]

We should all chip in and get some of these for @Rasputin_Vol

 

[LouderVol]

I think Russia would likely have a hand in most of the countries that are on its western border because of the security risks.

Like, being invaded by your larger neighbor to your east after they seized some of your land 8 years ago? That type of security?

Russia's security does not trump Ukraines security.

 

[KB5252]

Do you hold these same beliefs and concerns for the people of Syria and Yemen? What about Palestinians? If not, then you are just virtue signaling and have disengenious outrage.

Do you hold Putin in the same contempt as you do the leaders of other countries for these acts in the countries?

You do realize there are multiple interests at play with many nations involved in almost all of those examples guess who else besides the west is involved....

 

[KB5252]

You mean the US State Department sent in their vultures and stirred up a colour revolution and brought in the neo-Nazi goons that ended up shooting Ukrainians in Maidan.


Why was this internal disagreement a matter for the US to be involved with? And Yatsenyuk was not elected. He was the hand picked person that the US State Department had selected.


Your view of the 2013/2014 breakdown of the fall of Ukraine is a propaganda filled narrative.

No more than yours

 

[KB5252]

And again, that didn't occur in Georgia in 2008. But maybe he feels now that was a mistake. Who knows.

He's currently occupying Georgia, everyone knows who's in charge

 

[landscapingvol]

You mean the Soviet Union purges? You're talking about that history?

Do you think those beliefs about government just magically disappeared with the fall of the Berlin Wall?

 

[KB5252]

You mean the Soviet Union purges? You're talking about that history?

They are flying Soviet flags on tanks in Ukraine right now.

 

[LouderVol]

His demands aren't unreasonable and definitely not worth more bloodshed than has already occurred.

So if we just demanded that Russia become a neutral nation by removing Putin, and joining NATO that would be reasonable and not worth bloodshed?

 

[EasternVol]

His demands aren't unreasonable and definitely not worth more bloodshed than has already occurred.

Wouldn't that be up to Ukraine to decide? After all it's them that's been invaded.

 

[NCFisher]

You still don't get it. The United States inserted themselves in both situations to initiate the conflicts in both Syria and Ukraine. The Russians, in both instances were called in to respond. Further, the United States has done nothing but take hardliners in both incidents when it comes to bringing down tensions. And lastly, in both situations, the United States flooded the area with weapons and support and allowed the conflicts to fester on for far longer than necessary.

You still don't get that we didn't "initiate" anything in Syria; it's as untrue as the bizarre civilian casualties you throw around for Iraq as fact.

Conflict began in late Jan. 2011 with the so-called Arab Spring sweeping the region. Syrians petitioned Assad for political reforms, and liberalization by ending the state of emergency in place since 1963 and the restoration of civil rights. When a military crackdown in May didn't quell dissent, Assad made empty promises and the National Council birthed to lead a revolt. Between non-Alawite rebel groups and defecting officers from the Syrian Armed Forces, the Free Syrian Army (FSA) was born in late July 2011, and a civil war was on.

Nor did we initiate a war in Ukraine by advocating Ukraine has the right to Westernize their nation and not remain in the tentacled KGB orbit of the paranoid autocrat residing next to them. You own both sides of your mouth but not the argument; if Assad had a right to put down insurgency, so did Zelensky. Hiding behind "Minsk II!" and 'more diplomacy' doesn't mask the contradiction. If Assad can put down insurgency and call in Putin, so can Zelensky in the Donbas and calling the U.S. and Europe.
The overwhelming majority of Ukrainians are telling you to stop toting Putin's water and that they have the right to sovereignty, but you're dedicated to the Russian cause under a sham "but America" argument.

 

[OrangeTsar]

Maybe we should follow that advice instead of pushing to start WWIII over Ukraine.

It is a difficult balancing act for sure. We can’t just abandon Ukraine without spooking our European allies but we can’t risk escalation with Russia by becoming too directly involved. We need prudent and wise statesmen in DC right now but I fear the current administration isn’t up to the job

 

[LouderVol]

The US overthrew the elected by the people leader in 2014 and inserted their puppet in his place.

You mean the elected guy who got rescued by Russia....yeah no foreign involvement there what so ever.

 

[OrangeTsar]

You still don't get it. The United States inserted themselves in both situations to initiate the conflicts in both Syria and Ukraine. The Russians, in both instances were called in to respond. Further, the United States has done nothing but take hardliners in both incidents when it comes to bringing down tensions. And lastly, in both situations, the United States flooded the area with weapons and support and allowed the conflicts to fester on for far longer than necessary.

So if the US is guilty of „flooding Ukraine with weapons“, what is Russia guilty of the last eight years, flooding the Donbas with crates of plush teddy bears?

 

[LouderVol]

You mean the US State Department sent in their vultures and stirred up a colour revolution and brought in the neo-Nazi goons that ended up shooting Ukrainians in Maidan.


Why was this internal disagreement a matter for the US to be involved with? And Yatsenyuk was not elected. He was the hand picked person that the US State Department had selected.


Your view of the 2013/2014 breakdown of the fall of Ukraine is a propaganda filled narrative.

Nuland's cookies sighting!

 

[OrangeTsar]

If he didn't push for regime change when that snake Saakashvili was running things in Georgia and didn't scoop up power 2 months ago in a near failed state in Kazakhstan, that leads you to think he may do the same here.

Although, Saakashvili ended up being a problem later on even in Ukraine and this Zelensky character is being prepped to follow in his footsteps... Putin may grow more impatient and go down the regime change route as a last resort.

Putin started the current war largely to attempt to force. Regime change. The hope was that the minute the first Russian column crossed the border, the Ukrainians would force Zelenski out. No way Putin thought this would be dragging on almost one month later

 

[NCFisher]

We're imprisoning journalists, running them into exile and censoring them right here in the United States... and of things continue on the path we are taking, it will get far worse.

90% false cake with 10% fact icing covering the rot is still rot. The only person fitting your description is Assange who'll have a day in U.S. court if extradited for conspiring with Manning who unquestionably violated national security.

You understand the difference between a day in court with legal representation, and a polonium bagel or bullet in the brain? Whether it gets worse doesn't now establish an equivalence between the U.S. and Russia. Get a hold of yourself.

 

[Johncarter53]