War in Ukraine

[LouderVol]

So the US isnt encouraging Ukraine not to sign a ceasefire and running weapons into Ukraine to prolong this conflict, costing many more needless innocent deaths? Yet you want to moralize about their sovereignty? Get outta here with that crap. They are US proxy State by every definition.

Link to the US encouraging Ukraine to not sign a ceasefire?

Maybe they dont want a ceasefire because Russia is still in their lands, killing their people and have been since 2014.

Russias invasion proves that Russia was never negotiating with honest intent to remain peaceful. Russia went through the motions to say they tried before they became the aggressor.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I think ultimately Putin would come off the regime change idea he floated a month ago. He may have already come off it.

If he didn't push for regime change when that snake Saakashvili was running things in Georgia and didn't scoop up power 2 months ago in a near failed state in Kazakhstan, that leads you to think he may do the same here.

Although, Saakashvili ended up being a problem later on even in Ukraine and this Zelensky character is being prepped to follow in his footsteps... Putin may grow more impatient and go down the regime change route as a last resort.

 

[KB5252]

The US overthrew the elected by the people leader in 2014 and inserted their puppet in his place.

The Russians struck a deal with the prior president. He ran on being open and pro Ukrainian. He immediately cozied to Putin. The people voiced their displeasure with him, he doubled down. Cracked down on protest and hurt killed people.

The people wanted to look west, they chose, we got involved. They elected a pro west president. Putin got butthurt.

This is a much more accurate representation of the situation even if it is oversimplified, it's not nearly as narrow as the propgandic summary you just gave.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Who are these imprisoned journalists?
Which journalists have been forced into exile by the US government?
Which journalists have been censored by the US government?

Julian Assange, Edward Snowden, and just about any social media site that promotes a counter narrative than the Biden White House.

 

[KB5252]

If he didn't push for regime change when that snake Saakashvili was running things in Georgia and didn't scoop up power 2 months ago in a near failed state in Kazakhstan, that leads you to think he may do the same here.

Although, Saakashvili ended up being a problem later on even in Ukraine and this Zelensky character is being prepped to follow in his footsteps... Putin may grow more impatient and go down the regime change route as a last resort.

The whole point of invasion was regime change.

 

[LouderVol]

What other option do they have?

Side with the Russians, or at least flee into Russia. Isnt that the entire argument Russia used? Ethnic russians suffering under Ukraine, I mean Americas, jack boot. This was supposed to be a popular liberation and return to the motherland.

Maybe the justification Putin is using was bs from the start because that's not what we are seeing.

Even if they were indifferent they could just sit it out or run. Instead we got videos of grandmas with balls of steel getting in the face of armed Russians.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Or maybe Putin should have allowed a free country the right to self determination instead of pushing to start WWIII

Putin didn't over throw the democratically elected leader in 2014. All of this started after the US staged that coup and color revolution.

 

[landscapingvol]

Ahh, so you don't know what he meant...but these are easily played on tropes by western media, so lets use that.

I am very familiar with Russian government purges as should you be or anyone who has studied history

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

There is some truth to what you are saying imo, but you are making Russia out to be righteous when they clearly are doing some evil sh*t. Annexing part of another country isn't right and killing innocent women and children is bone chillingly iniquitous. I can understand his frustration with what was happening in Ukraine, but I won't justify any of his actions.

It didn't have to come to this conflict.

Also, I hope you are not asserting that what is going on there is more sinister than anything we would have done in this stage of the conflict.

 

[landscapingvol]

Putin didn't over throw the democratically elected leader in 2014. All of this started after the US staged that coup and color revolution.

Ukraine isn't and never was a threat to the Russian government, military, people, or the World. Stop making excuses for their invasion

 

[landscapingvol]

It didn't have to come to this conflict.

Also, I hope you are not asserting that what is going on there is more sinister than anything we would have done in this stage of the conflict.

Are you trying to suggest the US has killed thousands of innocent people in Ukraine? I will hang up and listen while you describe said events otherwise Russia has had a much more sinister role

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

And when we point out that Putin is every bit as flawed and guilty of the same infractions and worse your stick to some odd sense of him fighting the good fight against corrupt interests. When in fact he is every bit as corrupt. Sometimes the enemy of your enemy is not your friend.

I'm not under some delusion of the US having some altruistic interest here. I do think the Ukrainian people want to be free, want to be aligned with the west. And they appear to be very willing to fight and die for it under incredible odds. I'm not willing to put US troops in the fray for a number of reasons but I support the Ukrainian people, and any help we can offer in humanitarian and shine limited military aid I'm comfortable with providing.

Do you hold these same beliefs and concerns for the people of Syria and Yemen? What about Palestinians? If not, then you are just virtue signaling and have disengenious outrage.

 

[happy-go_vol]

He was getting intel briefings?

Intel was too busy framing him

 

[Hunerwadel]

The cognitive dissonance is fun to watch. Putin cant be both the monster people claim and also be popular in Russia, easily winning free and fair elections. So, the elections must be rigged.

Any opposition gets poison in their underpants not a spot on the ballot.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

We would be more likely to do that if it weren't for the fact he is committing war crimes and slaughtering innocent civilians in a sovereign nation. He's kind of got that working against him.

If that is what you truly believe, then negotiating now would stop all of those alleged war crimes sooner rather than dragging this out to the last drop of Ukrainian blood.

 

[landscapingvol]

Do you hold these same beliefs and concerns for the people of Syria and Yemen? What about Palestinians?

We are a non factor in Yemen and yes the Palestinians screwed themselves in the past when it comes to Israel. They were offered part of the land in Palestine, refused to share with the Hebrews and have had a pretty crappy existence since then. The Syrian people were attacked by the Assad regime and his regime is being propped up by the Russian military. We are in Syria helping the Kurds fight ISIS, huge distinctions between the two

 

[happy-go_vol]

It is like boiling a frog. It has been a gradual process, but our standard of living has declined. We have gone from a single income being able to comfortably raise a family to needing two (or more) incomes for most. It has gone from being able to work a summer mnimum wage job to pay a year of college (without scholarship) to needing to work 9-12 months on minimum wage to do the same today.

Yeah, it's all centered around the family, the gov has killed the family. You want kids to stop shooting and robbing? Encourage a normal, God ordained nuclear family that doesn't rely on gov.

 

[landscapingvol]

If that is what you truly believe, then negotiating now would stop all of those alleged war crimes sooner rather than dragging this out to the last drop of Ukrainian blood.

The only people dragging this out is the Russian military

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

If that was the case he'd be using more precision weapons and fewer dumb weapons. That take doesn't hold up to logic.

You don't have any idea what kind of weaponry he is using. Neither one of us does. You're just parroting what this corrupt media is telling you.

But don't worry, the truth will all be revealed soon.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Dude, you have gone off the deep end. People here in this country feel VERY comfortable giving their opinions. Even the controversial.

Let me repeat myself one more time...

We are not too far from that situation right here in America if you haven't been paying attention the last two years.

 

[LouderVol]

Agree. Unless you count having to destroy a place to save it for yourself and alienating all the inhabitants for decades, Russia is definitely not winning. I can't see taking and holding a destroyed land full of people who would slit your throat at any opportunity as winning. It would be a bit like winning against Germany after WW1, and what that win brought next - the difference being that of occupation, and don't bet Russian occupation of Ukraine wouldn't be a lot like French occupation of Vietnam. Uneasy lies the crown - unless Russia were to go the genocide route.

That's exactly what we did with Japan. We nuked two of their major cities after fire bombing their capitol to avoid the Russians having a chance to get a foothold.

 

[TheDeeble]

You don't have any idea what kind of weaponry he is using. Neither one of us does. You're just parroting what this corrupt media is telling you.

But don't worry, the truth will all be revealed soon.

Will this be actual truth, or fake real truth like how Russia was never going to invade Ukraine. That was all western lies and media corruption remember?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

The Russians struck a deal with the prior president. He ran on being open and pro Ukrainian. He immediately cozied to Putin. The people voiced their displeasure with him, he doubled down. Cracked down on protest and hurt killed people.

You mean the US State Department sent in their vultures and stirred up a colour revolution and brought in the neo-Nazi goons that ended up shooting Ukrainians in Maidan.

The people wanted to look west, they chose, we got involved. They elected a pro west president. Putin got butthurt.

Why was this internal disagreement a matter for the US to be involved with? And Yatsenyuk was not elected. He was the hand picked person that the US State Department had selected.

This is a much more accurate representation of the situation even if it is oversimplified, it's not nearly as narrow as the propgandic summary you just gave.

Your view of the 2013/2014 breakdown of the fall of Ukraine is a propaganda filled narrative.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

The whole point of invasion was regime change.

And again, that didn't occur in Georgia in 2008. But maybe he feels now that was a mistake. Who knows.

 

[Weezer]

Do you hold these same beliefs and concerns for the people of Syria and Yemen? What about Palestinians? If not, then you are just virtue signaling and have disengenious outrage.

You do understand that you're asserting our government is guilty of the same behavior as Putin, right? And that in making that assertion, you're condemning our government for their actions? But then you turn around and prop up Putin, even though you've condemned our government for similar actions. And you want to say other people are disingenuous? Which is it Ras? Is the behavior wrong or not? And if it's wrong for the U.S. to engage in such actions, why do you not see it as wrong for Putin to engage in such actions? Your hypocrisy in this thread has been strong and run rampant.