War in Ukraine

#18,527
#18,527
Rasputin_Vol said:
You're showing you bias and not showing much logic.

If he really wanted to target civilian targets for the purpose of total conquest, there wouldn't be a building left standing east of the Dneiper River.
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Based on what? This clearly isnt the russian military we were lead to believe existed. They cant even feed or fuel a large number of their forces, how are they going to systematically destroy a good sized country? , and they already have 75% of the military deployed, so it's not like they have a bunch of assets left to throw around.

The idea that Putin would need to bomb all the civilians doesnt make sense on its face. That's never been required for conquest before. Especially conquest in Ukraine, see Donbas and Crimea.

Going full scorched earth isnt something you do if you want to occupy the nation. It's done to deny your enemy resources. How would they progress at all if they completely leveled every city, bridge, and airport before them? Even if you buy the regime change argument it's hard to prop up a puppet when the nation is rubble, no one would buy it.

This argument makes no sense. Just because Putin isnt doing the worst atrocities doesnt mean he isnt doing atrocities at all.
 
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#18,530
#18,530
Rasputin_Vol said:
They invaded in order to stop the conflict happening on their border against ethnic Russians/Russian people. In addition, they saw an increasing security threat in Ukraine where NATO was involved in pushing military assets into the region and engaged in weapons of mass destruction.
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This is just as dumb an argument as the one luther made for the no fly zone. You dont establish peace, or use peace as justification for a larger war. If he wanted peace he could have pushed in just far enough to clear the Ukrainian artillery, and then pulled back with a line in the sand. If ukraine put troops back there he could just push them out again. He is grabbing territory, not defending people.
 
#18,532
#18,532
NCFisher said:
Your contention was the U.S. initiated the Syrian conflict; I responded how that is false. You'll note from the timeline that civil war began long before U.S. involvement. You made the erroneous clam of U.S. involvement in 2011 days ago to someone else, "gotdammit".

In addition, your link refers to the 2011 LIBYA intervention - also the timeframe for A. Spring in Syria - and notes:

Sounds like someone was sober in the room. You'll see similar sobriety in the full quote of your paragraph two. Do you Hirsch is implying Obama knew the chem attack(s) were bogus and trying to go ahead anyway? That's not what he's saying.

Are you using some chem incidents in which Assad abstained as proof he didn't use chem weapons? More recent review than Hirsch's claim that's not true, and chlorine was Assad's weapon of choice:
https://www.gppi.net/media/GPPi_Schneider_Luetkefend_2019_Nowhere_to_Hide_Web.pdf

The U.S. coalition didn't intervene until Sept. 2014 to bomb IS and al-Nusra forces. In 2017-2018, Assad & ally forces were also attacked providing defense to SDF and NSA. You can argue from that angle at least an intent to inhibit Assad or cause his downfall.

The U.S. didn't initiate the Ukraine invasion either.
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Obama's "red line" comment was setting the stage for a false flag event in Syria. He knew that without some kind of provocation/manufactured consent, that he would not be able to act. And as is written there, the Pentagon appears to have delayed, but not stopped the inevitable.

Also, to assume that there were not elements and agents in Syria in 2011 is comical. We had all sorts of assets and mercenaries, especially in neighboring Iraq at the time, that could have been there agitating things in Syria and masquerading as rebels. Syria was on the playbook as far back as 2001, also. So again, I think you are being a tad bit naive to think we didn't have any involvement in 2011.

 
#18,533
#18,533
Better get your bomb shelter finished pronto...

Putin won't be able to use Botox due to sanctions: Reports

short by Ankush Verma / 02:36 pm on 18 Mar 2022,Friday

Due to the sanction imposed on Russia amid its invasion of Ukraine, President Vladimir Putin won't be able to use Botox, reports said. Abbvie, which owns the wrinkle treatment product, has said it has temporarily suspended operations for all its aesthetic products in Russia, reports added. The use of Botox by Putin has been widely reported by several media outlets.
 
#18,535
#18,535
NCFisher said:
The U.S. didn't initiate the Ukraine invasion either.
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December 2013, 2 months before the coup (sponsored by Chevron). Also, her conversation with Yanokovich dealt with getting Ukraine tied in with the IMF and becoming a debt slave of that entity. Getting them in the EU was just window dressing.




February 2014, 2 weeks before the coup
 
#18,538
#18,538
Russia "Will Not Allow" S-300 Air Defence System Transfer To Ukraine: Report

Russia has threatened to attack supply chains of S-300 air defence systems to Ukraine after Slovakia announced that it is willing to support Kyiv by providing the said defence system, reported local media on Friday (Local Time).

Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said that Moscow "will not allow" the transfer of the S-300 air defence system, reported The Kyiv Independent.

Earlier on Thursday, Slovakia's defence ministry said that the country is willing to send S-300 long-range air defence systems to Ukraine provided that Western allies give them a "proper replacement" to avoid creating a security gap, reported The Washington Post.

# # #

The S-300 resupplies are critical for Ukraine. Lavrov's comments underscore this fact, but the truth is Russia is struggling to just feed and re-arm its troops in Ukraine much less seek and destroy Ukrainian supply columns.
 
#18,539
#18,539
Rasputin_Vol said:
Of course than can be if we go around the globe provoking them. Our immediate foreign threat right now is China... because they have bought off a bunch of influential people in DC, the media and on Wall Street.
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I agree that China is a threat but so is Putin and our own government.
 
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#18,541
#18,541
hog88 said:
I agree that China is a threat but so is Putin and our own government.
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Putin is more concerned about his western border and trying to build up Russia's economy. We missed out on an opportunity to move closer and building a relationship with them.
 
#18,542
#18,542
volgr said:
I haven't discussed Syria, so the first part of your post regarding Syria isn't relevant to me. The US isn't involved in a war with Russia currently, so your statement that I support our enemy is incorrect. I have stated, I care not if Putin loses in Ukraine and goes home with his tail between his legs. I have no dog in their fight. However, I'm not going to go along with this charade of pushing untrue and distorted views of Russia and Ukraine that are pushed by our gov't and media (neither of which have proven themselves to be trusted). Nor do I trust what comes out of Russian media and the Russian government for the same reasons. Would I like to see Russia pull itself from the ashes and become a more free, democratic and prosperous Nation for the good of it's people? Sure. Are they there yet? No. Have they progressed to that goal under Putin? Yes. Could someone else do it better? Very likely.

I critique America because my ancestry dates back before the founding and I have 3 kids who will inherit whatever we are leaving them. My allegiance is with America, but America seems to have hopelessly lost her way. We are America in name only as our Nation no longer conducts itself based on American ideals.
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The most untrue distortion comes from pretending Ukraine is a Nazi regime that is killing peaceful Russians in the Donbas, who aren't Putin-sponsored separatists trying to rip another piece away (or more), or that Putin does not view Ukraine as anything but Russian property. How do we know that?? We unclog our ears and listen to him when he says it. And every time he's exercised this blueprint against former satellites. Even more distorted is the "split country" meme when clearly polls and Ukrainians killing these Russian a-wipes speaks otherwise.

I went through the phase, too, and fell into overarching comparisons with U.S. history but you and Ras have gone to another level. That changes when one concludes humanity is gray, relative, and that it shades toward black and white, worse and better. 'Ideal' is a journey, not attainable destination. Understanding that, I cut my losses and left my old arguments. We're hopeless when too many say that to any longer defend it.
 
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#18,544
#18,544
NCFisher said:
The most untrue distortion comes from pretending Ukraine is a Nazi regime that is killing peaceful Russians in the Donbas
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Well, kind of an exaggeration on your part. There are Nazi-influenced people that we have armed and that we helped to put in positions of power back in 2014.

Lets be clear about what the accusations are actually saying because there are a lot of Ukrainians that do not go along with the Azov and Svboda/Right Sektor gangs. Those groups are just the hand picked mercenaries of Western influencers.
 
#18,546
#18,546
hog88 said:
I wouldn't call him a patriot but I don't think I would call him a traitor either. Depends on what hes done since then.
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The last I read was that Snowden is just sitting on a lot of illegally copied information and using it as bait or security to keep himself safe. We probably all agree that there's a lot our intelligence community is doing that we would disagree with and that we want a lot of what they do reeled in, but on the other hand it's really dangerous having Snowdens and Mannings and others with access to intelligence thinking that they know what's right and wrong. Manning can't even figure out if he's a he or a she, and Snowden had a lot of issues of his own.
 
#18,548
#18,548
Small Ukrainian quadcopter drones are now dropping RKG-3 anti-armor grenades.

This is probably the most amazing / scary thing I've seen in this war to date - next to the switchblade suicide drones (now en route to help Ukraine). These over the counter drones are flying so low that the grenades average only 4 or 5 seconds to hit their target, and for a small grenade, the effect appears to be absolutely brutal. Per the RKG-3 spec sheet, it can penetrate over 6 inches of steel armor.

Check out this vid:

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineInv.../?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

Per Forbes:

...weaponizing them is fairly easy. In 2020, Kiev Arsenal developed a simple drone bomb by attaching aerodynamic fins to the Soviet-era RKG-3 anti-tank grenade. This was demonstrated in a military exercise and said to be able to hit a target a meter across from an altitude of 300 meters, high enough for the drone to be virtually invisible and inaudible. Pictures have emerged of newly made RKG-1600 grenades apparently produced using 3D -printed parts.

“Nicely done IMO,” Nick Waters of Bellingcat, a leading authority on drone bombs, told me. “That’s a pretty good combo.”

960x0.jpg

A commercial drone drops an RKG-1600 bomb in a Ukrainian military exercise in 2020.

The RKG-3 is effective against light armored vehicles and throws out lethal fragments. It is considered obsolete and Ukraine likely has large stocks that can be converted. Although at three pounds this is too heavy for smaller drones, the Ukrainians may follow the example of others and adapt Vog-17 grenades for drone use. There is already an unverified video purporting to show an RKG-1600 drone bomb hitting on a Russian supply truck, in line with Bunker’s advice for the best use of such drones.

“I would suggest that the Ukrainians use consumer drones for the aerial bombardment of targets that cannot easily be hit by ground forces with infantry arms,” says Bunker. ”They should be prioritized for going after Russian fuel and munitions dumps, targeting Russian senior military officers, and other high value targets.”

How could the Russians counter such tactics? In Mosul, the U.S. successfully defeated ISIS drones with electronic jamming. However, Russian electronic warfare capability has so far failed to materialize as expected in Ukraine.
 
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#18,549
#18,549
AM64 said:
The last I read was that Snowden is just sitting on a lot of illegally copied information and using it as bait or security to keep himself safe. We probably all agree that there's a lot our intelligence community is doing that we would disagree with and that we want a lot of what they do reeled in, but on the other hand it's really dangerous having Snowdens and Mannings and others with access to intelligence thinking that they know what's right and wrong. Manning can't even figure out if he's a he or a she, and Snowden had a lot of issues of his own.
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I'm torn with Snowden, on one hand I'm grateful he did what he did (although nothing changed because of it) and wished he would have released it all on the web and stayed here to face the music. On the other I'm afraid that he has been used by Russia and China, possibly has crossed that traitor line.
 
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#18,550
#18,550
AM64 said:
The last I read was that Snowden is just sitting on a lot of illegally copied information and using it as bait or security to keep himself safe. We probably all agree that there's a lot our intelligence community is doing that we would disagree with and that we want a lot of what they do reeled in, but on the other hand it's really dangerous having Snowdens and Mannings and others with access to intelligence thinking that they know what's right and wrong. Manning can't even figure out if he's a he or a she, and Snowden had a lot of issues of his own.
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Who knew that having the US government and all of our alphabet agencies go after someone created a stressful situation for people. If I am being hunted like that I am going to develop issues and start asking some fundamental questions about things I never did before.

At some point it boils down to both being in the wrong. Snowden for stealing, the government for doing it. From either side the action of the other doesnt clear the entity in question. We know that the government will never see a court room, so I have them as the more offensive. Especially considering they are supposed to be on the up and up on everything to be able to hand out guilty verdicts to others.
 
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