War in Ukraine

#18,551
#18,551
AM64 said:
The last I read was that Snowden is just sitting on a lot of illegally copied information and using it as bait or security to keep himself safe. We probably all agree that there's a lot our intelligence community is doing that we would disagree with and that we want a lot of what they do reeled in, but on the other hand it's really dangerous having Snowdens and Mannings and others with access to intelligence thinking that they know what's right and wrong. Manning can't even figure out if he's a he or a she, and Snowden had a lot of issues of his own.
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What's the worse that could happen if they release it? A few bad actors from Langley get smoked?

I'm serious. What would be the drawbacks?
 
#18,553
#18,553
hog88 said:
I'm torn with Snowden, on one hand I'm grateful he did what he did (although nothing changed because of it) and wished he would have released it all on the web and stayed here to face the music. On the other I'm afraid that he has been used by Russia and China, possibly has crossed that traitor line.
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Possibly. Now what could he possibly have hurt or jeopardized?
 
#18,554
#18,554
Rasputin_Vol said:
Obama's "red line" comment was setting the stage for a false flag event in Syria. He knew that without some kind of provocation/manufactured consent, that he would not be able to act. And as is written there, the Pentagon appears to have delayed, but not stopped the inevitable.

Also, to assume that there were not elements and agents in Syria in 2011 is comical. We had all sorts of assets and mercenaries, especially in neighboring Iraq at the time, that could have been there agitating things in Syria and masquerading as rebels. Syria was on the playbook as far back as 2001, also. So again, I think you are being a tad bit naive to think we didn't have any involvement in 2011.

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I think it naive to move the goalpost and think I won't notice.

The inevitable was delayed until May 2017 when the first allied strikes against pro-Assad forces occurred. You're trying to collate or unaware that until then - from Sept. 2014 - the target of Operation Inherent Resolve attacks were Islamic State in Iraq and Syria. Which directly aided Assad by removing those caliphate n'er-do-wells from the table, did it not? Funny way to depose someone, if you ask me. US-Led Coalition Attacks Pro-Assad Regime Forces in Syria

Your premise was false and Hirsch isn't saying what you're hearing; we didn't initiate the conflict nor depose Assad, nor is there evidence I can find that the Obama WH intended to, despite calling for his resignation.
The End.
 
#18,556
#18,556
hog88 said:
I'm torn with Snowden, on one hand I'm grateful he did what he did (although nothing changed because of it) and wished he would have released it all on the web and stayed here to face the music. On the other I'm afraid that he has been used by Russia and China, possibly has crossed that traitor line.
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I can't get that sympathetic with Snowden, but I can mostly understand and even agree with what he wanted to to accomplish. We deserve far better than an unfettered NSA and other intelligence agencies; I just don't know a responsible way to force change, but I don't think Snowdens are the way.
 
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#18,557
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#18,559
#18,559
NCFisher said:
I think it naive to move the goalpost and think I won't notice.

The inevitable was delayed until May 2017 when the first allied strikes against pro-Assad forces occurred. You're trying to collate or unaware that until then - from Sept. 2014 - the target of Operation Inherent Resolve attacks were Islamic State in Iraq and Syria. Which directly aided Assad by removing those caliphate n'er-do-wells from the table, did it not? Funny way to depose someone, if you ask me. US-Led Coalition Attacks Pro-Assad Regime Forces in Syria

Your premise was false and Hirsch isn't saying what you're hearing; we didn't initiate the conflict nor depose Assad, nor is there evidence I can find that the Obama WH intended to, despite calling for his resignation.
The End.
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You are just ruling out or ignoring the US use of mercenaries and us dumping arms to both ISIS and the Free Syrian Army. What difference does an official US military attack in May 2017 mean if we have armed mercenaries in the area going back 5-6 years?
 
#18,561
#18,561
Rasputin_Vol said:
Well, kind of an exaggeration on your part. There are Nazi-influenced people that we have armed and that we helped to put in positions of power back in 2014.

Lets be clear about what the accusations are actually saying because there are a lot of Ukrainians that do not go along with the Azov and Svboda/Right Sektor gangs. Those groups are just the hand picked mercenaries of Western influencers.
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I've having a hard time caring that Aryan militias & gangs are killing Soviet wannabes, but certainly don't confuse them with the government of Ukraine or Ukrainian people.
I've never understood why many have a hard time excoriating Marxists and their post-USSR spawn in the same breath as Nazis.
 
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#18,564
#18,564
volgr said:
And what were the people of Crimea saying and tried to vote on? Who was listening to them? What are the people of eastern Ukraine saying? Who is listening to them?
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If they were so desperate to be Russian citizens, they could have moved.

Russia has no more right to annex the territory they occupy than Mexico has to annex El Paso.
 
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#18,565
#18,565
Septic said:
Oh, are you talking about this? It's about the closest thing I could find.

Trump threatens to weaken First Amendment protections for reporters

Or do you have something more concrete that would see a journalist imprisoned for not toeing the us.govs line? Anything else is hyperbole.
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I actually support that. Quite a few in the press should have been at the least sued during Trump's tenure. They were completely out of control and living up to his label of them being the enemy of the people.

What does the left say about the 2nd amendment? We just want common sense free speech reforms.
 
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#18,568
#18,568
Rasputin_Vol said:
You're showing you bias and not showing much logic.

If he really wanted to target civilian targets for the purpose of total conquest, there wouldn't be a building left standing east of the Dneiper River.
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LOL, then Putin's army is even more inept that previously believed - he's got the ability to not target civilians and neighborhoods, they're just so bad at this they keep screwing up?

I'm not sure how you think that makes that pathetic excuse for an army look better.
 
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#18,570
#18,570
volgr said:
I actually support that. Quite a few in the press should have been at the least sued during Trump's tenure. They were completely out of control and living up to his label of them being the enemy of the people.

What does the left say about the 2nd amendment? We just want common sense free speech reforms.
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I'm sure you do, comrade.
 
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#18,571
#18,571
Rasputin_Vol said:
What's the worse that could happen if they release it? A few bad actors from Langley get smoked?

I'm serious. What would be the drawbacks?
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How about the law of unintended consequences and we don't know what the drawbacks might be? If you look at the NSA and the privacy angles, you really have to think the criminality of it starts at the top and goes down rather than some bad guys who stray off the reservation. All the 9/11 stuff was a power grab by people at the top who saw an opportunity and weren't about to let a good crisis go to waste. That even goes back to the invasions of other countries you despise. Stop and think about it; it isn't reflective of us or our values. Those things were power grabs by people - some of who were legitimately in positions of power, but most just appointed by those "we" elected - and perhaps by power brokers who funded those elected. Reform starts elsewhere with campaign finance and lobbying reform and term limits.
 
#18,573
#18,573
NCFisher said:
I've having a hard time caring that Aryan militias & gangs are killing Soviet wannabes, but certainly don't confuse them with the government of Ukraine or Ukrainian people.
I've never understood why many have a hard time excoriating Marxists and their post-USSR spawn in the same breath as Nazis.
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That word salad didn't even address what I stated. I made a clear distinction between the Nazi wannabees and the average Ukrainian.
 
#18,575
#18,575
volgr said:
It follows what I have said perfectly.
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You’ve been making excuses for Russian behavior and are now basically just acknowledging there’s no real moral or ethical excuse. They just want the territory and assumed their bigger army would win.

Replace Crimea with Austria and the Donbas with the Sudetenland and you see where the logic of invading on behalf of your “mistreated minority” gets you.
 
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