War in Ukraine

[McDad]

I don’t think it’s justified, but I can see where Russia is coming from. And everybody is kidding themselves if they don’t think the US would be doing the same thing if the tables were reversed.

Can you give me a scenario where America would have a need to do what Putin has done? even a hypothetical scenario will do.

 

[NCFisher]

I don’t know about the rest of Ukraine’s military, but the Azov Battalion is full of Nazis. After the 2014 revolution, the Azov battalion leadership were given several key political appointments.

The Azov whose HQ was destroyed nearly two weeks ago by UAF military for not following Ukraine command: Ukrainian army destroy Nationalist HQ of Azov Nationalist battalion in Mariupol | They were founded as a national socialist group by wealthy Ukrainians, some of them Jews. Certainly a Nazi battalion would not have support in the Jewish community, nor have Jews as prominent commanders, and yet they do. It may be that Azov is an ultranationalist group that admittedly has some members who are neo_Nazis (below)

Azov is a force of about 900 in a military of 245K active, 220K reserve. There's no indication the populace are Nazis, so why would they have a military "rife with Nazism" as several here have stated or implied, and led by a Jew? Besides American Democrats characterizing conservatives, who would make such claims - ? And why would people parrot it without giving it even superficial examination?

Probably Putin and his Russophile water boys abroad; they certainly keep the ground here wet.
What appears certain is that Putin isn't in Ukraine to fight 'Nazis'.

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A spokesman for the unit has said "only 10–20%" of its recruits are neo-Nazis, with one commander attributing neo-Nazi ideology to misguided youth.[72] Members of the unit have stated that the inverted Wolfsangel, rather than connected to Nazism, represents the Ukrainian words for "united nation"[17][43] or "national idea" (Ukrainian: Ідея Нації, Ideya Natsii) ​

​

Connection to antisemitism​

More than 40 Israeli human rights activists signed a petition to stop arms sales to Ukraine arguing that Israel is selling military-style Tavor and Negev automatic weapons to the Ukrainian government knowing that some of these arms end up in the hands of the right-wing Azov militia.[110]​

​

Despite accusations that the group is antisemitic, some members of the Jewish community in Ukraine support and serve in the Azov Battalion. One of its most prominent members is Nathan Khazin, leader of the "Jewish hundreds" during the 2013 Euromaidan protests in Kyiv.[111] In an interview, Andriy Biletsky explained that he regards Israel and Japan as role models for the development of Ukraine.[112]​

​

Slavic paganism​

Most soldiers of Azov are followers of a Ukrainian nationalist type of Rodnovery (Slavic Native Faith), wherefrom they derive some of their symbolism (such as a variation of the swastika symbol kolovrat). They have also established Rodnover shrines for their religious rites, including one in Mariupol dedicated to Perun.[113]​

​

Azov Battalion - Wikipedia

 

[KB5252]

I don’t know about the rest of Ukraine’s military, but the Azov Battalion is full of Nazis. After the 2014 revolution, the Azov battalion leadership were given several key political appointments.

I have to wonder if Nazi is thrown around there as "racist" is here. I don't know but it makes you wonder.

 

[Gandalf]

The Azov whose HQ was destroyed nearly two weeks ago by UAF military for not following Ukraine command: Ukrainian army destroy Nationalist HQ of Azov Nationalist battalion in Mariupol | The were founded as a national socialist group by wealthy Ukrainians, some of them Jews. Certainly a Nazi battalion would not have support in the Jewish community, nor have Jews as prominent commanders, and yet they do. It may be that Azov is an ultranationalist group that admittedly has some members who are neo_Nazis (below)

Azov a force of about 900 in a military of 245K active, 220K reserve. There's no indication the populace are Nazis, so why would they have a military "rife with Nazism" lead by a Jew as several here have stated or implied? Besides American Democrats characterizing conservatives, who would make such claims - ? And why would people parrot it without giving it even superficial examination?

Probably Putin and his Russophile water boys abroad; they're certainly keep the ground here wet.
What appears certain is that Putin isn't in Ukraine to fight 'Nazis'.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

A spokesman for the unit has said "only 10–20%" of its recruits are neo-Nazis, with one commander attributing neo-Nazi ideology to misguided youth.[72] Members of the unit have stated that the inverted Wolfsangel, rather than connected to Nazism, represents the Ukrainian words for "united nation"[17][43] or "national idea" (Ukrainian: Ідея Нації, Ideya Natsii) ​

​

Connection to antisemitism​

More than 40 Israeli human rights activists signed a petition to stop arms sales to Ukraine arguing that Israel is selling military-style Tavor and Negev automatic weapons to the Ukrainian government knowing that some of these arms end up in the hands of the right-wing Azov militia.[110]​

​

Despite accusations that the group is antisemitic, some members of the Jewish community in Ukraine support and serve in the Azov Battalion. One of its most prominent members is Nathan Khazin, leader of the "Jewish hundreds" during the 2013 Euromaidan protests in Kyiv.[111] In an interview, Andriy Biletsky explained that he regards Israel and Japan as role models for the development of Ukraine.[112]​

​

Slavic paganism​

Most soldiers of Azov are followers of a Ukrainian nationalist type of Rodnovery (Slavic Native Faith), wherefrom they derive some of their symbolism (such as a variation of the swastika symbol kolovrat). They have also established Rodnover shrines for their religious rites, including one in Mariupol dedicated to Perun.[113]​

​

Azov Battalion - Wikipedia

Per my buddy above, yes there are plenty of Aryan groups in Ukraine but not Nazi like we tend to think of them, anti semetic, etc. just ultra nationalist and hating Russians

 

[volgr]

So did Hitler, Mao, Stalin, etc., Kim Jong Un executed a pop band for immoral music in front of a stadium sized crowd. You aren’t good at this, are you?

Read the post I was responding to before trying to show what a special boy you are. Had nothing to do with your reaponse.

 

[NCFisher]

I have to wonder if Nazi is thrown around there as "racist" is here. I don't know but it makes you wonder.

A reasonable approximation. We saw it in the CA government's vilification of the truckers, emblazoning the same photos repeatedly of a guy carrying a Confederate flag and a group of 5-6 persons sporting Nazi swag, while ignoring the sea of CA flags. The same was done by the MI governor including a guy with a swastika sign plainly comparing her to Hitler. Democrats do it to conservative opposition with the changing of the hour.

 

[USF grad in TN]

Can you give me a scenario where America would have a need to do what Putin has done? even a hypothetical scenario will do.

If Biden said he wanted to be in charge of Canada, and Canada said no?

 

[landscapingvol]

I don’t know if they worship Hitler if that’s what you mean. But they are ultra-nationalists that use a lot of nazi Germany’s symbols and tactics. They’re heavily armed and absolutely brutalize people they deem undesirables or just disagree with.

There’s a video from a couple years ago of them trapping people in a court house and burning them alive. It’s one of the more disturbing things I’ve seen.

You mean like the eagle, which was used by the Romans among others? You mean like the current Russian invasion where they are killing innocent people they disagree with? I have searched the internet for the church fire accusation that has been made several times and there is nothing about being locked in a church/set in fire. I would think that would be a pretty big story

 

[NCFisher]

You mean like the eagle, which was used by the Romans among others? You mean like the current Russian invasion where they are killing innocent people they disagree with? I have searched the internet for the church fire accusation that has been made several times and there is nothing about being locked in a church/set in fire. I would think that would be a pretty big story

I wonder what some are going to do for a narrative around here without Ukrainian Nazis burning good Russians alive...

 

[landscapingvol]

So I have cigars with a buddy of mine last night. His gov relations firm represents ah.. a leading mercenary firm. Not his direct client but he sat in on a meeting and this was the take:

1. Russia losses 20-30k
2. Ukraine losses over 120k hard to know military vs civilians since they’ve kinda same at this point
3. CIA and firms like theirs training Ukraine last couple of years and planning for this is why bridges etc were taken out with precision to slow advance.
4. Yes they were running the insurgents in Donbas etc but Biden pulled out soon after getting in office.
5. US operators no longer on the ground but Polish and French and one other I forget are very active.
6. Russia mostly owns the air but EU weapons are making it less of an issue because they can still hit heavy armor outside of LOS.
7. Ukrainian old and young, even ones who were Russia army before HATE Russia.
8. Thinks Russia can take ground but can’t keep it long enough to move forward because of special ops harassment #5and #6
9. Russia will put everything into surrounding Kyiv to try to force a surrender so they can declare win.

That is just one take but I assume they have better intel than most.

That sounds reasonable but if those civilian numbers are true, it’s pretty high for a relatively short war. It was roughly that many by all sides in the Iraq War through the year 2019 which is roughly 16 years with many of those coming from insurgent attacks.

 

[landscapingvol]

The Azov whose HQ was destroyed nearly two weeks ago by UAF military for not following Ukraine command: Ukrainian army destroy Nationalist HQ of Azov Nationalist battalion in Mariupol | They were founded as a national socialist group by wealthy Ukrainians, some of them Jews. Certainly a Nazi battalion would not have support in the Jewish community, nor have Jews as prominent commanders, and yet they do. It may be that Azov is an ultranationalist group that admittedly has some members who are neo_Nazis (below)

Azov is a force of about 900 in a military of 245K active, 220K reserve. There's no indication the populace are Nazis, so why would they have a military "rife with Nazism" as several here have stated or implied, and led by a Jew? Besides American Democrats characterizing conservatives, who would make such claims - ? And why would people parrot it without giving it even superficial examination?

Probably Putin and his Russophile water boys abroad; they certainly keep the ground here wet.
What appears certain is that Putin isn't in Ukraine to fight 'Nazis'.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

A spokesman for the unit has said "only 10–20%" of its recruits are neo-Nazis, with one commander attributing neo-Nazi ideology to misguided youth.[72] Members of the unit have stated that the inverted Wolfsangel, rather than connected to Nazism, represents the Ukrainian words for "united nation"[17][43] or "national idea" (Ukrainian: Ідея Нації, Ideya Natsii) ​

​

Connection to antisemitism​

More than 40 Israeli human rights activists signed a petition to stop arms sales to Ukraine arguing that Israel is selling military-style Tavor and Negev automatic weapons to the Ukrainian government knowing that some of these arms end up in the hands of the right-wing Azov militia.[110]​

​

Despite accusations that the group is antisemitic, some members of the Jewish community in Ukraine support and serve in the Azov Battalion. One of its most prominent members is Nathan Khazin, leader of the "Jewish hundreds" during the 2013 Euromaidan protests in Kyiv.[111] In an interview, Andriy Biletsky explained that he regards Israel and Japan as role models for the development of Ukraine.[112]​

​

Slavic paganism​

Most soldiers of Azov are followers of a Ukrainian nationalist type of Rodnovery (Slavic Native Faith), wherefrom they derive some of their symbolism (such as a variation of the swastika symbol kolovrat). They have also established Rodnover shrines for their religious rites, including one in Mariupol dedicated to Perun.[113]​

​

Azov Battalion - Wikipedia

A force of 900, they are clearly a threat to Russian stability. I would be willing to bet there actually thousands of real Nazis in Germany today in a country with a population of 80 million.

 

[red butler]

Then call them ultra nationalists. I could buy a sword and walk around under a banner saying SPQR, that wouldn’t make me a Roman Centurion. Calling everyone right wing a Nazi diminishes the absolute horror and evil that was the real thing

Just calling them ultra nationalist diminishes what they are as well. Certainly they aren’t on the level of the final solution, but I bet they’re as bad as the early days of the nazi party.

 

[red butler]

You mean like the eagle, which was used by the Romans among others? You mean like the current Russian invasion where they are killing innocent people they disagree with? I have searched the internet for the church fire accusation that has been made several times and there is nothing about being locked in a church/set in fire. I would think that would be a pretty big story

The video might have been scrubbed from the internet. But it happened.

 

[red butler]

Can you give me a scenario where America would have a need to do what Putin has done? even a hypothetical scenario will do.

Let’s say China starts pumping money into Mexico extremist groups leading to a revolution. The Chinese ambassador is taped directing who the next Mexican president is going to be before there is even a vote to remove the last one. Violence erupts when someone starts shooting from behind protesters, killing police and protesters indiscriminately. After the coup, several violent “ultra nationalists” are given high level government appointments. The children of several high level Chinese officials are given token board seats of Mexican oil companies, paying undeserved tens of millions. The VP of China brags about threatening to cut off aid to Mexico if they continue investigating corruption.

Then China and Mexico start making statements like they’re going to join a Warsaw Pact type alliance. Massive amount of military equipment start flooding into Mexico while tens of thousands American sympathizers are killed along the border. In the near future DoD sees a scenario where Chinese fleets are docked in Mexican ports threatening use of strategic seaways.

Certainly we would try diplomacy, then try regime change- but if everything failed, we’d invade. Especially if China elected an incompetent leader. There’s no way we wouldn’t invoke the Monroe Doctrine.

 

[NCFisher]

The video might have been scrubbed from the internet. But it happened.

Doubt it, but if so the story would be there; you could link and we'd see if there was corroboration. Without that, it's unsubstantiated.

Just calling them ultra nationalist diminishes what they are as well. Certainly they aren’t on the level of the final solution, but I bet they’re as bad as the early days of the nazi party.

Not if that's what they are and depending upon their flavor of ultra-nationalism. Nationalism - patriotism - is a necessary ingredient of a stable society. Ultra-nationalism is extreme patriotism and can be unhealthy or just a very strong belief in country and its advancement.

Your willing to wager on something doesn't make it so. I've already shown Azov has support in the Jewish community, has Jewish founding, and Jews prominent in leadership. You have to square that somehow.

 

[0nelilreb]

I trained with the M14 in basic. It is a very accurate rifle well suited for the Ukrainian terrain. It's also very durable and easy to maintain. 350yd hits were easier with the 14 than the 16 which I trained with after basic. Of course ole Huner was an expert.

Have you ever had the opportunity to shoot the M1 Garand ?

 

[IluvdoubleD's]

 

[Hunerwadel]

Have you ever had the opportunity to shoot the M1 Garand ?

No, I've fired an M1 Carbine many years ago that a buddy had. It appeared to be in good shape but It wasn't very accurate. Neither of us could get tight groupings with it.

 

[0nelilreb]

No, I've fired an M1 Carbine many years ago that a buddy had. It appeared to be in good shape but It wasn't very accurate. Neither of us could get tight groupings with it.

I was just looking at the M14 history ,I had no idea that there were 4 different manufacturers. About 1.3 million produced . That’s impressive

 

[Hunerwadel]

I was just looking at the M14 history ,I had no idea that there were 4 different manufacturers. About 1.3 million produced . That’s impressive

Had Vietnam not come along it would probably have been the Army's standard issue weapon for a few more years than it was. We just needed a different kind of weapon for jungle warfare. The M16 was well suited for that. It had some reliability problems early on but they were overcome and it performed very well.

 

[MontyPython]

Mao swam 9 miles along the Yangtze in just over an hour shattering the World record in his 70’s and over weight so it’s completely legit

Not possible. World record for men's mile is 14:12.

 

[MontyPython]

2. Ukraine losses over 120k hard to know military vs civilians since they’ve kinda same at this point
3. CIA and firms like theirs training Ukraine last couple of years and planning for this is why bridges etc were taken out with precision to slow advance.
4. Yes they were running the insurgents in Donbas etc but Biden pulled out soon after getting in office.
5. US operators no longer on the ground but Polish and French and one other I forget are very active.
6. Russia mostly owns the air but EU weapons are making it less of an issue because they can still hit heavy armor outside of LOS.
7. Ukrainian old and young, even ones who were Russia army before HATE Russia.
8. Thinks Russia can take ground but can’t keep it long enough to move forward because of special ops harassment #5and #6
9. Russia will put everything into surrounding Kyiv to try to force a surrender so they can declare win.

That is just one take but I assume they have better intel than most.

Presume typo.

 

[volgr]

Something the World can agree on...Yankees are the worst...

 

[hog88]

Have you ever had the opportunity to shoot the M1 Garand ?

Yes

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Just curious, but who is that guy pictured that is blurred out behind the mayor being interviewed @ around the 5:00 mark? Incidentally, the mayor's name is Artem Semenikhin... might want to Google that guy.