War in Ukraine

#19,501
#19,501
DonjoVol said:
Perhaps we can agree that the beliefs of Stepan Bandera are outdated just like the ideas of Hitler and Marx should be considered outdated?

Or maybe we can't agree because you thinking seems to be one sided on the issue.
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Yes, he is clearly a threat to World peace. I would venture to guess that less than .005 percent of the global population even has a clue as to who that is
 
#19,503
#19,503
AM64 said:
Nice. We maliciously and criminally cut off McDonalds in Russia, and Putin cuts off heat in Ukraine. Can't wait to hear how Ras and his couple of disciples justify this one.
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I know you’re you’re a fan of hyperbole, but Russia was kicked off the SWIFT system not just McDonalds. How long do you expect them to pump gas for free?
 
#19,514
#19,514
NCFisher said:
I think 'to say they have no security concerns re Ukraine is sophomoric at best and blatantly dishonest at worst. No, of course Russia isn’t worried about Ukraine invading but a child knows they worry about the US and NATO' in reply to the person saying it, will be interpreted by 99% of people as insult.

I don't view U.S. government as precious. I look at your scenario the same way; in practical terms, is this a valid concern? We have long, stable relations with Mexico, buy 80%/$330B of their exports while China buys <2%/$10B. Mexico isn't wrecking that.

Russia is not a good neighbor of Ukraine. Ukraine doesn't have nukes, Russia does. NATO, nor anyone else is going to use Ukraine as thoroughfare for Russian attack unless Russia attacks NATO. NATO isn't going to attack nuclear Russia. That's it. That isn't going to happen and to think Putin doesn't understand that practical reality is the simple-minded rubric you allude to. His security claims are that rubric. Even if Ukraine were in NATO, no one is attacking Russia unless they move on NATO.

I think likely he'd have taken Ukraine after Crimea if Biden had succeeded him. He's made clear that Ukraine is going to stay a relatively poor, 2nd world country in Russia's orbit because he intends to directly have it or indirectly control with a pro-Russia regime. His statements Ukraine has to be deNazified and demilitarized are just another rubric layer. He's gaming the West just like M. East experts were gamed by a scraggly bunch of Palestine Arabs for decades, and convinced the world no peace without kowtowing to them.

People who feign to be suspicious of everyone around them are those hiding themselves as being the worst offender. That was the point of my comment re: Putin's SC endorsement then, that he violates now, not that it has served as restraint.
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There is much in this that I agree with. I also agree with the idea that it probably isnt a real concern for the USA and Mexico (though the potential of China arming the drug lords to be a drain on us is not so far fetched IMO). Operators of various sorts running around in Ukraine making it even more resistant to Russia is a real and valid concern if I am Russia.

The reality is that Russia wants Ukraine to stay relatively poor, dependent and quasi neutral so that it can control it while Russia grows its influence. NATO wants Ukraine to adopt EU mindset and government practices and softly turn it into an EU ally (so it can basically control it). It has long been pondering how to make a NATO partner but has feared aggravating Russia. The reason they want a partner is to put "defensive" strike capabilities much closer to Russia's border and ostensibly to expand the EU's power, territory and governance. Since this has been the case, the EU and the USA have paid off the leaders of their growing puppet there and are now running the public relations campaign.

What do the Ukrainian people want? sadly, nobody but themselves really give 2Fs what they want. Everyone supposedly "helping" them or threatening them see them as the prize of this struggle, largely between the EU expansion and Russia expansion.

Its like the smart kid who talks all fancy to the girl and the bully is flustered, so, sensing he is losing her, decides to resort to physical means to "win" her AKA caveman/abuser style. In this case, the smartypants also is good friends with the captain of the football team, who is a 3rd-degree black belt. We may not condone that behavior as legitimate but understand that they are both going for the same girl.

I just hope everyone can find a way through this that does the least harm to the Ukrainian people. A nice bonus is making Ivan a bit weaker (but dont want him too weak or China will fill that gap).
 
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#19,515
#19,515
Septic said:
Oh they'll buy it, but it will be at bargain basement prices.
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Why bargain basement..just a little cheaper or at market pricing and they can create their own micro international commodity. And not everything is about pricing in itself when there are greater inspirations, just as US tariffs on CCP imported product.
 
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#19,516
#19,516
McDad said:
Did he tell me you're improving your style of communication and critical thinking ability???
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This coming from someone who claims to be part of the "both sides" crowd in the political forum that clearly only takes one side. So much for critical thinking on your part.
 
#19,517
#19,517
luthervol said:
You're off the mark trying to equate economic sanctions to bombing civilian locations.
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Please revaluate your assumptions. This psychopath Madeline Albright had to weigh out the pros/cons of starving 500,000 kids using sanctions. I’ll save you the suspense as to the decision she made, “it was worth it.”
 
#19,518
#19,518
DonjoVol said:
This coming from someone who claims to be part of the "both sides" crowd in the political forum that clearly only takes one side. So much for critical thinking on your part.
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Even your cuts are recycled. You used my retort in your reply to me. Original AND devastating.

Clearly you are my superior in every way imaginable. Please spare me further pwning while there are still tattered shreds of my ego still repairable.
 
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#19,519
#19,519
McDad said:
Even your cuts are recycled. You used my retort in your reply to me. Original AND devastating.

Clearly you are my superior in every way imaginable. Please spare me further pwning while there are still tattered shreds of my ego still repairable.
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You forgot this gif :p

waynesworldnotworthy.gif
 
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#19,522
#19,522
McDad said:
Even your cuts are recycled. You used my retort in your reply to me. Original AND devastating.

Clearly you are my superior in every way imaginable. Please spare me further pwning while there are still tattered shreds of my ego still repairable.
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I'm just pointing out facts. When I first started posting on the political forum regularly it was people like you and the usual "moderate" crowd telling me I must call out both sides. However, you "moderates" actually fail miserably at seeing both sides yourselves. It's really about getting people to only see your side. I'm smart enough to see right through that BS and call it out. Which really irritates your crowd.

The reality is there is actually two sides to this issue and some of us are pointing out. I've called out Putin, Russia, Ukraine, U.S., NATO , John McCain, Victoria Nuland, etc. There has been more than one guilty party in all of this.

I agree with some of what Fisher said. A lot of this hatred stems from the Holodomor during the Soviet Union era. Keep in mind it was the Soviet Union who did that and not Russia. This led to many Ukrainians siding with Nazi Germany and led to the rise of Stepan Bandera. Bandera still has many followers today. It fits under the category of ultranationalism. I could give more of a history lesson on the subject but will pass for now. I'll just be wasting my time.

Putin has strategically taken over Crimea and is trying to block off Ukraine from the Black Sea. He has supported Transnistria's independence. As well as that of Abkhazia and South Ossetia. Sadly, most people have absolutely no idea about those 3 independence movements which of course have been supported by Russia. More than likely for strategic and economic reasons.
 
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