War in Ukraine

[VolStrom]

To be fair , if I was about to try and take over another country in the winter , and they received their energy from me ..I would have done this first .

If I were doing this, I wouldn't have waited until spring.

 

[allvol123]

Ukraine gave Russia it's nukes in exchange to be "NEVER ATTACKED".

They should have exchanged them for never being part of Special Military Operations.

 

[Orangeburst]

Respect and appreciation for taking the time explaining that so thoroughly. I learned a lot.

Well done.

I always learn a lot from Fisher...Very educated man. Knows his details so through it is like being back in School. Wonder if he is a History Professor.

 

[NCFisher]

A child also adopts insults where they are not intended. If it came across that it was directed at you in particular, then my sincere apologies, in my haste to post it from a phone may have made it read so.

The argument here, however, that states Russia has no legitimate security reasons to worry about Ukraine simply because they arent going to be directly attacked by them is indeed a rubric of the simple-minded.

Were Mexico to request to join a China-lead military alliance that would enable China to put "defensive" capabilities right on our borders, you don't think your precious government here would respond with significant action? or if it were found that China's military had actively been equipping and training Mexican drug cartels to destabilize our Southern border? Do you think the US military does not now "invade" near at will in Mexico when we see armed para-military drug gangs? That doesn't mean we would have to pull a full-scale invasion of Mexico but if they agreed to play host to Chinese missiles, perhaps we might. Certainly, we would have a "security concern" there. Well, I have difficulty seeing how that is much different than what has been happening in Ukraine. Just because I support one side over the other, doesn't mean I cannot recognize it for what it is.

And no, an edict from SC sanction means nothing at all. I am sure Russia thinks no more of a UN edict than we do. Do you think China asks for SC permission when it removes HK governance at will? or when we bomb Syria or myriad other actions? No, because the whole point of sitting on the SC roughly means that you are powerful enough to be above asking anyone for a "by your leave Sir". Like Keiretsu and Chaebol, these institutions are made by the strong to guide the weak, keeping relative harmony, to the benefit of mostly all but especially those who lead the organization.

I think 'to say they have no security concerns re Ukraine is sophomoric at best and blatantly dishonest at worst. No, of course Russia isn’t worried about Ukraine invading but a child knows they worry about the US and NATO' in reply to the person saying it, will be interpreted by 99% of people as insult.

I don't view U.S. government as precious. I look at your scenario the same way; in practical terms, is this a valid concern? We have long, stable relations with Mexico, buy 80%/$330B of their exports while China buys <2%/$10B. Mexico isn't wrecking that.

Russia is not a good neighbor of Ukraine. Ukraine doesn't have nukes, Russia does. NATO, nor anyone else is going to use Ukraine as thoroughfare for Russian attack unless Russia attacks NATO. NATO isn't going to attack nuclear Russia. That's it. That isn't going to happen and to think Putin doesn't understand that practical reality is the simple-minded rubric you allude to. His security claims are that rubric. Even if Ukraine were in NATO, no one is attacking Russia unless they move on NATO.

I think likely he'd have taken Ukraine after Crimea if Biden had succeeded him. He's made clear that Ukraine is going to stay a relatively poor, 2nd world country in Russia's orbit because he intends to directly have it or indirectly control with a pro-Russia regime. His statements Ukraine has to be deNazified and demilitarized are just another rubric layer. He's gaming the West just like M. East experts were gamed by a scraggly bunch of Palestine Arabs for decades, and convinced the world no peace without kowtowing to them.

People who feign to be suspicious of everyone around them are those hiding themselves as being the worst offender. That was the point of my comment re: Putin's SC endorsement then, that he violates now, not that it has served as restraint.

 

[DonjoVol]

They have a reason to dislike Poles and Russians, such as trying to stamp their ethnicity and culture out of them.
Ultranationalist beliefs can lead to a lot of things, desirable or not.
Like repelling Russia attempting to tear away the Donbas, which is why the UAF and nationalists have been focused on them.

Perhaps we can agree that the beliefs of Stepan Bandera are outdated just like the ideas of Hitler and Marx should be considered outdated?

Or maybe we can't agree because you thinking seems to be one sided on the issue.

 

[volfanhill]

To be fair , if I was about to try and take over another country in the winter , and they received their energy from me ..I would have done this first .

True. But we have multiple posters on here who think Putin is being Mother Teresa right now

 

[AM64]

To be fair , if I was about to try and take over another country in the winter , and they received their energy from me ..I would have done this first .

I thought Ukraine was a producer - you know the biden kid. Anyway it looks like Ukraine quit buying Russian NG in 2015 and buys what it needs from Poland, Slovakia, and Hungary. The weird thing is that major Russian NG pipelines to Europe go through Ukraine, and Crimea (now annexed by Russia) has huge NG reserves. Makes you wonder if this is really all about NG and the European market, and Putin has killed the goose laying golden eggs. Supposedly Russia pays transport fees for gas pumped through lines going through Ukraine - all kinds of room for Ukrainian mischief there except cutting supply could hurt countries friendly to Ukraine.

 

[MontyPython]

 

[clarksvol00]

I bet you lie awake at night worrying about Illinois Nazis as well, right?

I hate Illinois nazis.

 

[PEPPERJAX]

I hate Illinois nazis.

 

[NEO]

Excuse me, I'll go back and read it again.....uhu...umm...mkay. Yep it's a touch of raw ass.

Ok

 

[apevol]

I thought Ukraine was a producer - you know the biden kid. Anyway it looks like Ukraine quit buying Russian NG in 2015 and buys what it needs from Poland, Slovakia, and Hungary. The weird thing is that major Russian NG pipelines to Europe go through Ukraine, and Crimea (now annexed by Russia) has huge NG reserves. Makes you wonder if this is really all about NG and the European market, and Putin has killed the goose laying golden eggs. Supposedly Russia pays transport fees for gas pumped through lines going through Ukraine - all kinds of room for Ukrainian mischief there except cutting supply could hurt countries friendly to Ukraine.

Vast majority of Ukraines gas is untapped. They're heavily dependent on imports. Putin needs to keep it that way.

 

[AM64]

I hate Illinois nazis.

We could just make that damn yankees and say the IL nazis are deserving of heightened status in that regard. If they'd all just stay home (including Skokie of course) ...

 

[MontyPython]

Don't panic over food supply, says Russian government


Empty shelves in a Moscow store last weekImage caption: Empty shelves in a Moscow store last week

The Russian government insists there is no need to panic over the availability of basic foods.

"We are fully covering our needs in sugar and buckwheat," said deputy PM Viktoria Abramchenko.

"There is no need to panic, no need to stockpile those goods. There's enough for everyone," she said at a government meeting, reported by Interfax news agency.

She did say however that Russia would increase the area of land used to sow sugar beet and buckwheat this year.

Abramchenko also said that so far the sanctions imposed on Russia did not give grounds to expect any food shortages. She said Russia was expanding imports from "friendly countries" to guarantee stocks of dairy produce, fruit and veg, meat and animal feed. She mentioned ex-Soviet neighbours in that group as well as Turkey, India and China.

The sanctions have depressed the value of the rouble, making imported food more expensive. They have also made it harder for Russia to use international financial services.

 

[apevol]

Don't panic over food supply, says Russian government

View attachment 441447
Empty shelves in a Moscow store last weekImage caption: Empty shelves in a Moscow store last week

The Russian government insists there is no need to panic over the availability of basic foods.

"We are fully covering our needs in sugar and buckwheat," said deputy PM Viktoria Abramchenko.

"There is no need to panic, no need to stockpile those goods. There's enough for everyone," she said at a government meeting, reported by Interfax news agency.

She did say however that Russia would increase the area of land used to sow sugar beet and buckwheat this year.

Abramchenko also said that so far the sanctions imposed on Russia did not give grounds to expect any food shortages. She said Russia was expanding imports from "friendly countries" to guarantee stocks of dairy produce, fruit and veg, meat and animal feed. She mentioned ex-Soviet neighbours in that group as well as Turkey, India and China.

The sanctions have depressed the value of the rouble, making imported food more expensive. They have also made it harder for Russia to use international financial services.

I just talked to a russian who told me there are already food shortages

 

[IluvdoubleD's]

It really comes down to who can hold out the longest, and I've been wrong about that once already.

 

[MontyPython]

I just talked to a russian who told me there are already food shortages

Sucks for them. Not sure how long the sanctions will take to really kick in, but they will.

On the flip side, Russians are tough MFers. Apparently not so good at this whole "war" thing, but their average citizen is damn tough.

 

[apevol]

Sucks for them. Not sure how long the sanctions will take to really kick in, but they will.

On the flip side, Russians are tough MFers. Apparently not so good at this whole "war" thing, but their average citizen is damn tough.

War isn't a tough guy thing, its an organized guy thing.

 

[IluvdoubleD's]

Their (Russian) average citizen is damn experienced with the internet we provide.

 

[WoodsmanVol]

Russians are chess players. Chess players tend to plan their move 3-4 moves ahead. Putin moved the pawn of international trade to lure the known selfish greed of western politicians and corporate entities to Russia. Hook them to profits and wide-ranging financial ties. He then moved his knight of oil & NG to make the west dependent on sucking at the Russian pipeline nipple. The rook weaseled its away into corporations, governmental agencies, and major university technological research facilities, stealing tech to further their military machine. Even gaining access to computers of the same to bypass security and disrupt functionality. Even Trump once claimed that Russia could shut down our entire electrical grid if they wanted to. Thus, further enhance their economy as well. Then, when ready to make his next move, stymie the west leaders USA and Britain into noninterference with the threat of a global nuke war. Positioning submarines and ships near our home shores and sending provocative patrols to stress the threat. And like the suckers we are, we fell for the whole thing. China has been in the process of doing something similar for a number of years now. We played ourselves as much as got played by Russia.

Right now, we have let ourselves become dependent on China for computer chips, titanium, and lithium. I imagine when they move on Taiwan, we'll face the same dilemma as we are now with Ukraine.

 

[DonjoVol]

Respect and appreciation for taking the time explaining that so thoroughly. I learned a lot.

Well done.

You mean he told you what you wanted to hear.

 

[LouderVol]

Once the real story comes out regarding the depth of Ukraine corruption and criminality, will history view Russians as liberators?

Because Russia is a bastion of anti-corruption and criminality?

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. This is pure politics. It's not the corruption and criminality that favors Putin so it needs to be stopped by killing people not even involved.

 

[LouderVol]

Here's a pretty good podcast on the potential worldwide food shortages that could happen due to the conflict.

Man it's almost like Russia shouldnt have invaded if this was a concern.

 

[LouderVol]

The biggest reason for Ukraine’s corruption is that it has been ruled by Moscow for so long.

I mean, they arent going to like that, but you arent necessarily wrong. But it's kinda impossible to prove.

 

[IluvdoubleD's]

even if you take a city, good chance you will, you will not take a country. That is your fatal flaw.