War in Ukraine

[AM64]

Makes no sense. Putin is losing in Ukraine, but wants to expand his special operation to Japan and Poland?

Going through Japan makes little sense to me. What does it tell you?

It’s reinforcements on their way to Ukraine. That is if turkey lets them through…

If analysists have it right, these are troops and supplies moving from a more remote location to Vladivostok. They might be backfill or they might be moving overland toward Ukraine - faster than by boat; it's a long long way to the Black Sea by boat. Getting anywhere from the Kamchakta Peninsula by land looks to be a nightmare.

The route taken by the Russian ships appears to suggest they were heading from Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky in Russia’s Kamchakta Peninsula to Vladivostok, where they will most likely be loaded onto westbound trains if they are indeed bound for Ukraine.

Japan spots Russian amphibious ships traveling between its islands

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Then you also understand what his likely end game is here, the last thrust of the Russian empire while it's still capable . Youd also have to admit that Ukrainian politics were just the pretext for the invasion. Furthermore it would also mean Russia plans on initiating WW3 to do all this and Ukraine is only 1 step in the goal.

Russia doesn't have the manpower or demographics to take over Europe or even maintain a new version of the USSR. You know this... or you at least believe it based on what media reports are telling you about all of their failures in occupying Ukraine.

And I've already told you what the reasons were for the conflict. I have no reason to come on here and put in subliminal clues or try to hide anything.

 

[KB5252]

Are you sure I said that? You'll need to find that quote. If I did, that was a mistake. I've never backed away from the idea that Putin does have strong feelings about the break up of the Soviet Union, but I've not felt strongly (even right now) that he desired to actually put the band back together simply because he has been wise enough to look at the expense and costs of controlling and maintaining an empire by looking at the damage it is causing the United States. And again, if Putin's desire was to rebuild the USSR, then why didn't he roll into Kazakhstan when it was in chaos just over 2 months ago and gobble it up?

You stated you were aware of their demographic challenges in response to my post about a video that discussed Russia's ambitions to reacquire strategic areas of Europe before their window closed. I thought you were also referencing that you had also been preaching this. I guess you were just referring to the demographic statement.

 

[AM64]

They would have to go through the suez canal as well, right? Do you think the reinforcements are coming from eastern Russia?

If they are, it's by train - not by boat.

 

[Orangeburst]

As someone who grew up in Memphis, it's a damn good slight. I like off color jokes though and believe that if it were anyone else but Dem floating it, it'd have gotten a chuckle.

Lighten up.

It was classless.

 

[KB5252]

Russia doesn't have the manpower or demographics to take over Europe or even maintain a new version of the USSR. You know this... or you at least believe it based on what media reports are telling you about all of their failures in occupying Ukraine.

And I've already told you what the reasons were for the conflict. I have no reason to come on here and put in subliminal clues or try to hide anything.

Ah, but if you were right they aren't using their might in Ukraine and are taking it easy on them.

Like I've told Volgr, I have an open mind I'm constantly seeking other perspectives. When more info comes to light my opinion often changes. If someone were to supply compelling info and it checks out when crossed with other sources odds are it's legit.

 

[AM64]

Arguing with most "conservatives" is a zero sum game. Unless one likes being gaslighted, having goalposts moved, and being set up for strawman argument tactics. It's the conservative way.

You think the inverse is any different. At least conservatives do understand real science, are generally more intelligent, and more competent in ways that matter.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

So the minority of Ukraine was right because they wanted Russian influence but the rest of the country, the majority, was wrong because they wanted western influence?

It isn't about right and wrong with regards to that. You need to focus on why the republics chose to take that extreme measure and decided to breakaway. Had the US not inserted itself into an internal issue, there likely wouldn't have been an independence movement. Also, people in the same country can have different agreements and they sometimes class along ethnic or religous lines all the time around the world. But for some reason (we know several reasons actually), the Obama and biden administrations seemed to have a very high interest in getting involved in Ukrainian affairs.

The issue isn't what we or Russia wanted, it's what the Ukrainian's wanted, the majority of them anyway. Had the US been involved over there advocating for the minority against the majority of people's wishes I'd say we were wrong to support that.

But that isn't the case here. It's a matter of a country having the right to self determination. They decided and because they decided they didn't want to be Russian puppet state the people are being slaughtered, starved.

Then why should the Donbas have been made to stay in that relationship? I mean, you are about self-determination, right?

And why all of the concern for the wants and desires of people in a foreign land? Do you care what the people of Syria wanted when the US was funding rebels and ISIS there? Do you give a damn about what the Houthis want in Yemen?

You all seem to have an emotional connection to seeing Ukrainians having to deal with this (partly because of leftover biases from the Cold war and your hatred of Russians), but also show little to no concern over people that are in similar situations elsewhere across the globe. I find that interesting.

 

[Burhead]

It isn't about right and wrong with regards to that. You need to focus on why the republics chose to take that extreme measure and decided to breakaway. Had the US not inserted itself into an internal issue, there likely wouldn't have been an independence movement. Also, people in the same country can have different agreements and they sometimes class along ethnic or religous lines all the time around the world. But for some reason (we know several reasons actually), the Obama and biden administrations seemed to have a very high interest in getting involved in Ukrainian affairs.

Don't you at all question why the people in Donbas waited until 2014 to rise up and only after Russia sent the FSB/Spetsnaz in to stir up the uprising? Ukraine had been independent for 23 years and not once had civil wars unlike other post-Soviet states. Why is it one broke out only after Putin took Crimea?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Ah, but if you were right they aren't using their might in Ukraine and are taking it easy on them.

Like I've told Volgr, I have an open mind I'm constantly seeking other perspectives. When more info comes to light my opinion often changes. If someone were to supply compelling info and it checks out when crossed with other sources odds are it's legit.

The Ghost of Kyiv, The 13 on Snake Island, the revelations about there being bio labs after all the fact checkers said otherwise and the 2 years worth of lies about COVID should have been enough of a wake up call for you to not believe a gotd*mn thing that this crooked azz media and govt tells you about anything.

The Ukrainians are certainly winning the media war. But the Russians are winning the war on the ground. And the constant begging for weapons and no fly zones and Zoom meetings with NATO state assemblies should be all the proof you need.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Don't you at all question why the people in Donbas waited until 2014 to rise up and only after Russia sent the FSB/Spetsnaz in to stir up the uprising? Ukraine had been independent for 23 years and not once had civil wars unlike other post-Soviet states. Why is it one broke out only after Putin took Crimea?

The coup was the catalyst. They had no reason to do anything before than. Nor did Russia have any reason to be concerned before then. You act like the coup was just a Tuesday in Ukraine and no big deal.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Don't you at all question why the people in Donbas waited until 2014 to rise up and only after Russia sent the FSB/Spetsnaz in to stir up the uprising? Ukraine had been independent for 23 years and not once had civil wars unlike other post-Soviet states. Why is it one broke out only after Putin took Crimea?

Also, Crimea is majority Russian... by a huge margin. That is also the location for the Black sea Fleet and their only warm water port (outside of Tartus). There is no way that Russia was going to allow Crimea to fall into possible NATO hands. They had a referendum, they overwhelmingly agreed to annexation, and that was it. And using your very words, not since annexation in 2014 have we "had civil wars unlike other post-Soviet states" in Crimea. In 2015, the Donbas republics held a similar referendum and had asked to join the Russian Federation, but Putin refused to admit them.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

You stated you were aware of their demographic challenges in response to my post about a video that discussed Russia's ambitions to reacquire strategic areas of Europe before their window closed. I thought you were also referencing that you had also been preaching this. I guess you were just referring to the demographic statement.

Yeah, the demographics of Russia are terrible. They've lost millions due to WWII and destructive democide/communist policies that starved millions more.

 

[Burhead]

The coup was the catalyst. They had no reason to do anything before than. Nor did Russia have any reason to be concerned before then. You act like the coup was just a Tuesday in Ukraine and no big deal.

So the Donbas is such rabid pro-Russian that it only took 20 odd years and prodding by Russian intelligence services to entice them to rise up gotcha. Doesn't sound like they really wanted to be apart of the Motherland that bad.

 

[Burhead]

Also, Crimea is majority Russian... by a huge margin. That is also the location for the Black sea Fleet and their only warm water port (outside of Tartus). There is no way that Russia was going to allow Crimea to fall into possible NATO hands. They had a referendum, they overwhelmingly agreed to annexation, and that was it. And using your very words, not since annexation in 2014 have we "had civil wars unlike other post-Soviet states" in Crimea. In 2015, the Donbas republics held a similar referendum and had asked to join the Russian Federation, but Putin refused to admit them.

We're not going to rehash the referendum. It was held under Russian occupation and did not at all present an option for Crimea to stay apart of Ukraine.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Ah, but if you were right they aren't using their might in Ukraine and are taking it easy on them.

They still have the overwhelming majority of the social services working. You are seeing at this very moment cellphone and internet images from Ukraine. had this been a US invasion/"shock and awe" style, Ukraine would have been looking like Dresden or Yemen by now. Mariupol was hit pretty hard because that is where the heart of the Azov thugs are hiding out and using civilians as human shields.

 

[AM64]

Hope we don't have to learn what the importance of the Suwalki gap is. Russia could cut off the Baltic's from NATO by land and link up with Kaliningrad. Never thought that Putin would be so stupid but the invasion of Ukraine proved otherwise.

Russia has to be cheering for global warming. Considering it is a huge country, Russia is remarkably screwed on ice free sea access.

Russia keeping or winding up with Kaliningrad after WW2 has to rank right up there with one of the greatest strategic blunders when the winners "patched parts up and put Europe back together again".

 

[volgr]

Yeah, the demographics of Russia are terrible. They've lost millions due to WWII and destructive democide/communist policies that starved millions more.

Add to that their birth rate has been below replacement level since the mid-80s and still well below today.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

So the Donbas is such rabid pro-Russian that it only took 20 odd years and prodding by Russian intelligence services to entice them to rise up gotcha. Doesn't sound like they really wanted to be apart of the Motherland that bad.

Nor was it really a strong desire of Russia to bring them or Crimea in before then, either? So what changed? Hell, Russia was even paying fees/rent to Ukraine to maintain their Black See Fleet in Sevastopol. If the Russians were blood thirsty killers that you want to seem to make them out to be, they would have gathered Crimea in 1991.

 

[AM64]

It's a shame really. Ukrainian farmers would love some of the newer stuff.

 

[DC_Vol]

Yeah, the demographics of Russia are terrible. They've lost millions due to WWII and destructive democide/communist policies that starved millions more.

And vodka!

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

We're not going to rehash the referendum. It was held under Russian occupation and did not at all present an option for Crimea to stay apart of Ukraine.

Crimea is 75-80% ethnic Russian. Most of those were employed by the Black Sea Fleet or had family members involved with it. Plus the fact that Crimea has been Russian since the 18th Century. It didn't take any arm twisting or the barrel of a gun to make Crimea choose Russia over a puppet regime in Kiev.

 

[Burhead]

Add to that their birth rate has been below replacement level since the mid-80s and still well below today.

Which is why this invasion is about land but people as well IMO. They need to incorporate as many Russians as they can back into the Motherland. Birth rates are high in non-European parts of the country if I recall correctly.

 

[Burhead]

If the Russians were blood thirsty killers that you want to seem to make them out to be, they would have gathered Crimea in 1991.

Have you seen how they wage war? Look at what the Soviet Red Army did to the Germans as the invaded. Look at what they did to Grozny and Chechnya. Look at what they did in Aleppo. Look at what they are doing in Mariupol and Kharkiv today. They would rather use artillery and basically ground cities into dust to break the will of resistance regardless of civilian losses.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Which is why this invasion is about land but people as well IMO. They need to incorporate as many Russians as they can back into the Motherland. Birth rates are high in non-European parts of the country if I recall correctly.

Then explain why they didn't grab Kazakhstan 2 months ago?