War in Ukraine

[SlipKidVol]

This was interesting, didn't get through all of it but makes some sense.

Wow...I hope everyone will give the time to listen,this guy is on it

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Doesn't have to be an attack on NATO. If Putin orders the use of chemical weapons that is a game changer and would, I fear, draw a response from the West.

And just like Assad in Syria, there is no incentive for Putin to use chemical weapons when Russia is winning. Just like Obama threw out the infamous "redline" threat, the Biden administration is using the same strategy right here by putting that idea out in the atmosphere and laying the groundwork for a false flag and manufactured consent.

 

[norrislakevol]

Putin greatly overestimated his military power when he invaded Ukraine, why wouldn't he do it again? I don't think he will but it isn't a certainty imo

I am totally unimpressed with Russia's invasion. They have made so many mistakes. History says they will do this anyways. They care very little for their troops, just like the Russian officers shooting their troops as they retreated against withering fire from the Germans calling them "cowards". Conventionally, they are a paper tiger, just like China.

 

[SlipKidVol]

Another interesting take

Should have responded with this. This guy is on top of it

 

[IluvdoubleD's]

Russian invaders have three days of supplies left, says Ukraine military

 

[Hunerwadel]

I came across this video of a battlefield size nuclear weapon I've never seen before. It kind of gives you a sense of scale. I didn't realize smaller nukes wouldn't develop a mushroom cloud. Anyway:

1 Kiloton Nuclear Bomb Detonated

Edit: I missed that it was a subsurface test so I guess this doesn't show full effects.

 

[KB5252]

Hope we don't have to learn what the importance of the Suwalki gap is. Russia could cut off the Baltic's from NATO by land and link up with Kaliningrad. Never thought that Putin would be so stupid but the invasion of Ukraine proved otherwise.

There was a post a day or two ago that mentioned this I believe. It's one of the 5 or 6 possible points by which Russia has been attacked in the past and could be invaded by land today. It would be a strategic point to control.

Personally I think Russian aspirations are greater than just Ukraine.

 

[KB5252]

Brynn needs to stick to cocktail waitressing. Why would Russia want to escalate beyond Ukraine knowing it would mean all out war with the US/Europe?

They invaded Ukraine knowing it could possibly result in all out war with Europe.

 

[apevol]

OK. I watched it. I didn't see anything provocative in that clip. Am I missing something?

All these regions seeded with expatriated "ethnic russians" just happen to start having independence movements when its the right time, don't you think?

He stated Crimea was not a target and there was no ethnic conflict in Ukraine, unlike Georgia.

Five years later and the CIA has Ukrainian nazis committing genocide? Come on. These places had thousands of influential people sent to exile, worked to death, imprisoned specifically so the kremlin could replace them and create long term ties working to maintain sway over the locals. They were all primed for this to happen.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

This was interesting, didn't get through all of it but makes some sense.

I've been talking about Russian demographics and the European plain for a while now. And that is mostly based on what Putin has been saying. That European plain to the west of Russia is where the Germans, (twice) Poles and Napoleon all used to march into Russia. And the demographic issue was something they are dealing with from all the lives lost in WWII and all of the poor communist decisions that killed millions more.

 

[volgr]

They invaded Ukraine knowing it could possibly result in all out war with Europe.

Chances were very small but the longer Russia waited in terms of years, those risks progressively escalate.

 

[KB5252]

Oh, well let me do that right now. I really didn't think it was necessarily relevant to the main issue. Politicians, even in America, campaign on one thing and then when they get in office, do another (GWB promising not to engage in "nation building", Biden promising not to mandate a vaccine). It is very likely that he broke that campaign promise. That still doesn't excuse the US State Department's actions of coordinating a coup on Russia's border. And it doesn't justify the Ukrainian puppet regime to attack for 8 years the breakaway republics that didn't want any part of that debacle and sham.

And how are the internal politics of a small corrupt country in eastern Europe of any concern for us in North America? Only people that have a financial interest over there should care about the internal politics over there (that is a hint, btw).


The fighting is over several things. 1. the breakaway republics being attacked for 8 years and the Ukrainians ignoring ceasefire agreements, 2. expansion of NATO on to Russia's borders, knowing good and damn well that if the show was on the other foot, that the US would have major issues with China or Russia setting up shop in Cuba, Mexico and Canada (hell, we had a few in here upset about China building a naval base in Equatorial Guinea. And 3. the newly revealed bio labs that are believed to be engaged in producing weapons of mass destruction.

You missed the point. The point is that if this wasn't what Ukraine wanted they wouldn't be fighting Russia now. They would have turned those weapons on Zelensky, instead they fight Putin.

We came because we were called to come. Right or wrong it was popular. So popular they voted in Zelensky to sustain the western alignment.

And the fighting in the breakaway regions was two way. When an armed revolt, which the Russians supported and assisted, in any country takes place there's an answer. We can go back and forth over who threw the first stone but it hasn't doesn't matter and in all honesty world be impossible to determine.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

All these regions seeded with expatriated "ethnic russians" just happen to start having independence movements when its the right time, don't you think?

He stated Crimea was not a target and there was no ethnic conflict in Ukraine, unlike Georgia.

Five years later and the CIA has Ukrainian nazis committing genocide? Come on. These places had thousands of influential people sent to exile, worked to death, imprisoned specifically so the kremlin could replace them and create long term ties working to maintain sway over the locals. They were all primed for this to happen.

You are not looking at the fact that the Russians had protested NATO expansion since 1991 and the west had made assurances to them that they were not going to expand east. Then, in 1999, you had the first expansion of NATO that broke that promise with the Visegrad group countries. Then later the Baltics and Poland.

At the time of this interview, Georgia was being led by a snake and western puppet named Mikhail Saakashvili. This guy was planted into Georgia for the purpose of bringing that country into the fold next. By this time, this is When Putin expressed his concerns for the last time before acting on it in 2008. Then in 2013, the US State Department set their eyes on Ukraine. At the time of that interview, Ukraine wasn't a target for Russia, but it was clearly a target for the US.

Nothing Putin said in that interview was duplicitous or erroneous. At the time, he was more focused on Georgia and likely felt that if he made his move in Georgia that the US and NATO would back off. Obviously, that wasn't the case.

And interesting thing about that snake Saakashvili, after he left Georgia, he ended up somehow working in the Ukrainian govt for a while. The guy is an American asset and a troublemaker.

Lastly, the Nazis in Ukraine have been there for over 80 years... they just didn't show up in 2014. But the US did start funding them in an effort to be a subversive force in Ukraine.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

It makes equal sense to blaming Biden for current shortages. That was sort of the point.

Um no. You along with others blamed Trump for everything for 4 years. You complete absolved the great divider Obama from any wrong doing. Sorry now that your guy is in charge, it’s his fault.

 

[KB5252]

I've been talking about Russian demographics and the European plain for a while now. And that is mostly based on what Putin has been saying. That European plain to the west of Russia is where the Germans, (twice) Poles and Napoleon all used to march into Russia. And the demographic issue was something they are dealing with from all the lives lost in WWII and all of the poor communist decisions that killed millions more.

Then you also understand what his likely end game is here, the last thrust of the Russian empire while it's still capable . Youd also have to admit that Ukrainian politics were just the pretext for the invasion. Furthermore it would also mean Russia plans on initiating WW3 to do all this and Ukraine is only 1 step in the goal.

 

[Septic]

It’s kids, Sep. Critically ill kids. LG should have shown some class on that one. None of us are surprised by the post. Sometimes, you pull back on the punch out of decency. Like I said, none of us were surprised by the post.

As someone who grew up in Memphis, it's a damn good slight. I like off color jokes though and believe that if it were anyone else but Dem floating it, it'd have gotten a chuckle.

Lighten up.

 

[Septic]

Can’t really see an attack on NATO. We would have seen some buildup, right? I could see more of an escalation in Ukraine.

Buildup of what? What's left, bicycles?

 

[KB5252]

You are not looking at the fact that the Russians had protested NATO expansion since 1991 and the west had made assurances to them that they were not going to expand east. Then, in 1999, you had the first expansion of NATO that broke that promise with the Visegrad group countries. Then later the Baltics and Poland.

At the time of this interview, Georgia was being led by a snake and western puppet named Mikhail Saakashvili. This guy was planted into Georgia for the purpose of bringing that country into the fold next. By this time, this is When Putin expressed his concerns for the last time before acting on it in 2008. Then in 2013, the US State Department set their eyes on Ukraine. At the time of that interview, Ukraine wasn't a target for Russia, but it was clearly a target for the US.

Nothing Putin said in that interview was duplicitous or erroneous. At the time, he was more focused on Georgia and likely felt that if he made his move in Georgia that the US and NATO would back off. Obviously, that wasn't the case.

And interesting thing about that snake Saakashvili, after he left Georgia, he ended up somehow working in the Ukrainian govt for a while. The guy is an American asset and a troublemaker.

Lastly, the Nazis in Ukraine have been there for over 80 years... they just didn't show up in 2014. But the US did start funding them in an effort to be a subversive force in Ukraine.

No, by your own admission you know Putin wants to get the band back together, so to speak before the demographics won't allow him to. That's not why he invaded it was the pretext.

 

[apevol]

You are not looking at the fact that the Russians had protested NATO expansion since 1991 and the west had made assurances to them that they were not going to expand east. Then, in 1999, you had the first expansion of NATO that broke that promise with the Visegrad group countries. Then later the Baltics and Poland.

At the time of this interview, Georgia was being led by a snake and western puppet named Mikhail Saakashvili. This guy was planted into Georgia for the purpose of bringing that country into the fold next. By this time, this is When Putin expressed his concerns for the last time before acting on it in 2008. Then in 2013, the US State Department set their eyes on Ukraine. At the time of that interview, Ukraine wasn't a target for Russia, but it was clearly a target for the US.

Nothing Putin said in that interview was duplicitous or erroneous. At the time, he was more focused on Georgia and likely felt that if he made his move in Georgia that the US and NATO would back off. Obviously, that wasn't the case.

And interesting thing about that snake Saakashvili, after he left Georgia, he ended up somehow working in the Ukrainian govt for a while. The guy is an American asset and a troublemaker.

Lastly, the Nazis in Ukraine have been there for over 80 years... they just didn't show up in 2014. But the US did start funding them in an effort to be a subversive force in Ukraine.

"The topic of ‘NATO expansion’ was not discussed at all, and it wasn’t brought up in those years. I say this with full responsibility. Not a single Eastern European country raised the issue, not even after the Warsaw Pact ceased to exist in 1991. Western leaders didn’t bring it up, either."

Do you know who said this?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

You missed the point. The point is that if this wasn't what Ukraine wanted they wouldn't be fighting Russia now. They would have turned those weapons on Zelensky, instead they fight Putin.

Nobody likes invaders. Most people are going to rally around their country when the opening shots are fired. That is natural. The question will be what will be the stories they tell when all of the dust settles.

We came because we were called to come. Right or wrong it was popular. So popular they voted in Zelensky to sustain the western alignment.

Russia was called to come to Syria by Assad. The Russians came because they have a naval base at Tartus.

Russia was called to come to Kazakhstan by their leader in January to help dampen a coup attempt. The Russians came because they share a border with Kazakhstan and do not need instability on their border.

The United States was called to come to Ukraine in 2014? In 2022? For what reason (outside the business interests of a few people in high places here)? Of what national interest (outside of the feelz) does it benefit the average American to even send weapons over to ukraine and risk agitating a nuclear power over a regional conflict on eastern Europe?

And the fighting in the breakaway regions was two way. When an armed revolt, which the Russians supported and assisted, in any country takes place there's an answer. We can go back and forth over who threw the first stone but it hasn't doesn't matter and in all honesty world be impossible to determine.

Well of course it is two way. You're just stating the obvious. That isn't a nuanced perspective you just provided. Ukraine acted no differently than the US would have responded had a group of states decided to leave the US. Countries fighting to maintain their national borders is not anything new or surprising. I understand that. But what was the catalyst for this Donbas conflict in the first place? It was the US coordinating the 2014 coup and the Donbas republics not wanting to be a part of the newly installed govt. The US caused the conflict and it started a chain reaction of events.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

No, by your own admission you know Putin wants to get the band back together, so to speak before the demographics won't allow him to. That's not why he invaded it was the pretext.

Are you sure I said that? You'll need to find that quote. If I did, that was a mistake. I've never backed away from the idea that Putin does have strong feelings about the break up of the Soviet Union, but I've not felt strongly (even right now) that he desired to actually put the band back together simply because he has been wise enough to look at the expense and costs of controlling and maintaining an empire by looking at the damage it is causing the United States. And again, if Putin's desire was to rebuild the USSR, then why didn't he roll into Kazakhstan when it was in chaos just over 2 months ago and gobble it up?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

"The topic of ‘NATO expansion’ was not discussed at all, and it wasn’t brought up in those years. I say this with full responsibility. Not a single Eastern European country raised the issue, not even after the Warsaw Pact ceased to exist in 1991. Western leaders didn’t bring it up, either."

Do you know who said this?

I have no idea. Who said it and what was the context?

 

[KB5252]

Nobody likes invaders. Most people are going to rally around their country when the opening shots are fired. That is natural. The question will be what will be the stories they tell when all of the dust settles.

Russia was called to come to Syria by Assad. The Russians came because they have a naval base at Tartus.

Russia was called to come to Kazakhstan by their leader in January to help dampen a coup attempt. The Russians came because they share a border with Kazakhstan and do not need instability on their border.

The United States was called to come to Ukraine in 2014? In 2022? For what reason (outside the business interests of a few people in high places here)? Of what national interest (outside of the feelz) does it benefit the average American to even send weapons over to ukraine and risk agitating a nuclear power over a regional conflict on eastern Europe?


Well of course it is two way. You're just stating the obvious. That isn't a nuanced perspective you just provided. Ukraine acted no differently than the US would have responded had a group of states decided to leave the US. Countries fighting to maintain their national borders is not anything new or surprising. I understand that. But what was the catalyst for this Donbas conflict in the first place? It was the US coordinating the 2014 coup and the Donbas republics not wanting to be a part of the newly installed govt. The US caused the conflict and it started a chain reaction of events.

So the minority of Ukraine was right because they wanted Russian influence but the rest of the country, the majority, was wrong because they wanted western influence? The issue isn't what we or Russia wanted, it's what the Ukrainian's wanted, the majority of them anyway. Had the US been involved over there advocating for the minority against the majority of people's wishes I'd say we were wrong to support that.

But that isn't the case here. It's a matter of a country having the right to self determination. They decided and because they decided they didn't want to be Russian puppet state the people are being slaughtered, starved.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

 

[KB5252]

Are you sure I said that? You'll need to find that quote. If I did, that was a mistake. I've never backed away from the idea that Putin does have strong feelings about the break up of the Soviet Union, but I've not felt strongly (even right now) that he desired to actually put the band back together simply because he has been wise enough to look at the expense and costs of controlling and maintaining an empire by looking at the damage it is causing the United States. And again, if Putin's desire was to rebuild the USSR, then why didn't he roll into Kazakhstan when it was in chaos just over 2 months ago and gobble it up?

Because Ukraine is more important historically and because it was a window that was closing rapidly.