Was it the blown no call that cost the titans

[volfan2024]

The no call when the time expired by the backjudge is the worse no call I've ever seen as far as the qb actually not havng the ball in his hands antil about 1.5 seconds after the zero. That call was one thing that cost us the game in a probablity, along with 3 turnovers,twice as many penalties, Ravens trying to break C/J's leg. Just as Oklahoma tried to take out Percy Harvin. The ref missed the call, but that's life.Players causing the team to lose and a ref missing such an easy call , (at least I've never seen one so blatant missed,ever),are different in that players costing you to lose millions of dollars by being knocked out of a playoff and a ref by bad miss costing you millions differ. I will say this though, I don't hold it against the ref because there's nothing easy about being a ref or umpire.

 

[Bassmanbruno]

I am the biased one looking at it one sided? Your bolded words tell me that you have only one way to look at the officials....they are bad!

If you would read what I post...I have said they make mistakes. Would you really expect them not to? What I think is ridiculous it that when the refs miss something they are completely bashed for whatever call the have made, good or bad...either way it is bad for one side. You cannot blame the officials completely for ANY loss you will ever have!

You have not done this, you admit that they are not totally to blame for the Titans loss.

What exactly did it cost the Titans? You have said yourself that the call did not cost them the game...

No I haven't. It did cost them the game. Several thing potentially cost the game. You take away a fumble (controllable) and we win the game. But - you take away the horrible call (uncontrollable) and we also win the game. Like I said a thousand times - some thing can be controlled and prevented (sloppiness) but some things can't... and the refs messed up badly and cost them a shot in the AFC title game. Its unfair that the game was changed by that play and by one of the most definitive rules in the NFL - there's no questionable or judgment used when making the call - it is what it is. If the clock hits zero.. its a delay of game... if the clocks stays on zero for TWO SECONDS its a delay of game.

I never said I wasn't biased - but that has nothing to do with it. It was obvious the calls was wrong and you're the only one taking up for them - see your user name which includes 'ref'.

I know that refs make mistakes. BUT NOT on those types of calls. Those mistakes are inexcusable. The rule is clear cut and is NOT questionable like a PI, hold, roughing the kicker/passer, illegal touching, etc, etc... those calls are missed often. But you do NOT see calls like false starts, delay of games, too many men on the field, etc not called often. Those should NEVER be screwed up.

If it were a PI or a hold there would not be all of this crap about the call... since its questionable and up to the human ref. A delay of game is not questionable and should never be missed... should I say it again?

 

[RCKYT0P]

Was talking about with the penalty added but didn't word it well.

How is it not? If the Titans get a stop there... they're guaranteed overtime at minimum and they have ALL their timeouts remaining. Baltimore would have more than likely punted and Tennessee would have the ball at the 35 minimum with a possible chance to return... this is with over 2 minutes remaining and a chance to win.

Time was no issue with the TOs and the 2 minute warning. Ravens weren't getting to Collins and they were tearing them up through the air. How was it not the most crucial play of the game? When you look at it before (without knowing what will happen - debatable of course but it is easily a top 5 without knowing the future circumstances) and after it's obvious. The Ravens weren't stopping Tennessee to that point so they was no reason to believe they would then.

Those two bolded areas contradict each other. They have over 2 minutes, they must drive down the field...they already have 3 turnovers...and the Ravens have Ed Reed...can you say, maybe, pick 6? So, OT was not guaranteed

 

[RCKYT0P]

Were the fumbles in the last 3 minutes of a tied game? No.

Did we get them in another 3rd down situation while there were NOT in FG range after the long completion? No.

I was mainly speaking before hand (not knowing the outcome of the play since that is what the refs were aware of at the time). Did we know Crumpler or White were going to fumble before those plays? No. We just figured they'd be important plays. That play was a 3rd down in the last few minutes of a tied playoff game.

Easily the biggest - even if we had gotten another 3rd down situation AFTER that play when they weren't in FG range - it wouldn't have been as big due to the fact field position is completely swapped and overtime is imminent since they've run the clock down more and Fisher would have played it conservatively rather than attempting to drive 80-99 yards instead of 60 or less.

I'm mainly talking about awareness of the refs before the play. It was an OBVIOUS crucial play and there's no excuse. Even when looking back - as you're stating by saying the fumbles were bigger - its still the biggest... although the White fumble comes close.

The Collins INT likely wouldn't have resulted in points unless he had managed to gain yards instead of just an incompletion.

The Crumpler fumble wasn't the biggest because it was 3rd down and he was more than likely going to be inches short fumble or not which would have led to a FG... and we ended up getting that anyway due to the goal line defense and good field position after forcing them to punt.

That's how it was the most important - specifically when looking before hand - but even when looking at everything after and considering the variables and factors. I'm not just saying this because they screwed up there - I did look at every outcome... the White fumble cost us dearly and is a close 2nd along with the missed FG. We likely wouldn't have scored more than 3 on that drive though if he hadn't fumbled since the clock was running down and the down and distance wasn't favorable if I remember correctly.

The plays you mention have no more of an impact that the delay of game no call

 

[RCKYT0P]

Was talking about with the penalty added but didn't word it well.

How is it not? If the Titans get a stop there... they're guaranteed overtime at minimum and they have ALL their timeouts remaining. Baltimore would have more than likely punted and Tennessee would have the ball at the 35 minimum with a possible chance to return... this is with over 2 minutes remaining and a chance to win.

Time was no issue with the TOs and the 2 minute warning. Ravens weren't getting to Collins and they were tearing them up through the air. How was it not the most crucial play of the game? When you look at it before (without knowing what will happen - debatable of course but it is easily a top 5 without knowing the future circumstances) and after it's obvious. The Ravens weren't stopping Tennessee to that point so they was no reason to believe they would then.

Were the fumbles in the last 3 minutes of a tied game? No.

Did we get them in another 3rd down situation while there were NOT in FG range after the long completion? No.

I was mainly speaking before hand (not knowing the outcome of the play since that is what the refs were aware of at the time). Did we know Crumpler or White were going to fumble before those plays? No. We just figured they'd be important plays. That play was a 3rd down in the last few minutes of a tied playoff game.

Easily the biggest - even if we had gotten another 3rd down situation AFTER that play when they weren't in FG range - it wouldn't have been as big due to the fact field position is completely swapped and overtime is imminent since they've run the clock down more and Fisher would have played it conservatively rather than attempting to drive 80-99 yards instead of 60 or less.

I'm mainly talking about awareness of the refs before the play. It was an OBVIOUS crucial play and there's no excuse. Even when looking back - as you're stating by saying the fumbles were bigger - its still the biggest... although the White fumble comes close.

The Collins INT likely wouldn't have resulted in points unless he had managed to gain yards instead of just an incompletion.

The Crumpler fumble wasn't the biggest because it was 3rd down and he was more than likely going to be inches short fumble or not which would have led to a FG... and we ended up getting that anyway due to the goal line defense and good field position after forcing them to punt.

That's how it was the most important - specifically when looking before hand - but even when looking at everything after and considering the variables and factors. I'm not just saying this because they screwed up there - I did look at every outcome... the White fumble cost us dearly and is a close 2nd along with the missed FG. We likely wouldn't have scored more than 3 on that drive though if he hadn't fumbled since the clock was running down and the down and distance wasn't favorable if I remember correctly.

Your one post has them driving down the field with timeouts and the 2:00 warning. Your other post has them playing conservative....these are complete opposites of what the Titans would do.

 

[Bassmanbruno]

Those two bolded areas contradict each other. They have over 2 minutes, they must drive down the field...they already have 3 turnovers...and the Ravens have Ed Reed...can you say, maybe, pick 6? So, OT was not guaranteed

I don't see your point. I see that you're now ducking the actually topic - but i'll bite.

Collins threw that pick early in the game and was on fire since then. They would have had great field position... 35-40 yard line minimum... maybe better with some return yardage.

Two turnovers were fumbles and they weren't going to be running it. The Ravens didn't get much pressure on Collins and Reed didn't sniff the ball all game long... Kerry was mostly going underneath the safeties - and it was working.. all.. night... long.

You're right overtime wasn't guaranteed - a win in regulation was more likely.

 

[Bassmanbruno]

Your one post has them driving down the field with timeouts and the 2:00 warning. Your other post has them playing conservative....these are complete opposites of what the Titans would do.

Did you not read the context of the post? I said they could've done either. They could have sat on the ball IF they had crappy field position. That's to say the Titans stopped the Ravens after the 3rd down conversion to Heap forcing them to punt. It's all hypothetical. It doesn't take a genius to figure out Jeff Fisher would have kneeled the ball if possible if he had the ball on his own 5-yard line if the clock was under two minutes.

 

[Bassmanbruno]

The plays you mention have no more of an impact that the delay of game no call

Yes they do and if you honestly believe that I don't know what to tell you. You need to get off the refs jock if so. I listed all the circumstances and surrounding effects of each of the plays and its clear its the most meaningful play of the game BEFORE knowing the outcome and after.

 

[RCKYT0P]

Circumstance dictates importance.

Regardless, the Officiating Crew should have realized the potential impact of the no-call, that late in the game, and should have absolutely reviewed it. For proof, see the Eagles/Giants 2 minute mark play... and that didn't even carry the amount of consternation the delay of game had.

I'm not arguing that that was the reason that the Titans lost... but I do think, singularly, that was the most important single play (or no play) of the game.

This is from the article posted on page one of this thread:

"The back judge [Bob Lawing] is responsible for that," referee Terry McAulay said. "He has the clock. When it hits zero [on the play clock], which is high here [on the scoreboards], he goes to the ball.

"So there is going to be a natural delay from zero to getting to the ball. And when he gets to the ball, if it is being snapped, we don't call it. So there can be a natural delay."

McAulay explained that is not a reviewable play. Matt Stover eventually ended the drive with a 43-yard field goal inside the final minute.

 

[RCKYT0P]

:good!:You said it perfectly.

...and football ref, I admit I never should have said the official should be fired over one bad no-call.
BUT at the very least I think some action (or fine) be taken against him if for no other reason that this was a VERY important game that the Titans might have won had the right call been made.

Also, your comparing mistakes made by the players and mistakes made by refs makes no sence to me. When turnovers or fumbles are made by the players, the opposing team gets rewarded by recovering the ball if they do. When a ref makes a bad no-call, the team that benefits is the one that made the mistake to start with.

We don't know what, if any, action will be taken...they get evaluated each game...it is highly unlikely that the NFL will make it public to any actions taken. We have no idea what kind of grades or ratings this particular back judge has

 

[RCKYT0P]

I don't see your point. I see that you're now ducking the actually topic - but i'll bite.

Collins threw that pick early in the game and was on fire since then. They would have had great field position... 35-40 yard line minimum... maybe better with some return yardage.

Two turnovers were fumbles and they weren't going to be running it. The Ravens didn't get much pressure on Collins and Reed didn't sniff the ball all game long... Kerry was mostly going underneath the safeties - and it was working.. all.. night... long.

You're right overtime wasn't guaranteed - a win in regulation was more likely.

What I was saying is that you claim OT or a Titan win was GUARANTEED....this is not true....VERY, VERY possible....but not known to be gauranteed

 

[Bassmanbruno]

What I was saying is that you claim OT or a Titan win was GUARANTEED....this is not true....VERY, VERY possible....but not known to be gauranteed

Yep - you're right - but that has nothing to do with the actual point about the missed call and doesn't make the refs call O.K. or less important.

 

[RCKYT0P]

Yes they do and if you honestly believe that I don't know what to tell you. You need to get off the refs jock if so. I listed all the circumstances and surrounding effects of each of the plays and its clear its the most meaningful play of the game BEFORE knowing the outcome and after.

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this topic.

 

[RCKYT0P]

Yep - you're right - but that has nothing to do with the actual point about the missed call and doesn't make the refs call O.K. or less important.

well, you posted this before I got my agree to disagree post made....


I have never said it was ok or not important. I am basically saying it happens.

I got to go for now...I will be back later tonight to see how you have responded to me.

 

[Bassmanbruno]

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this topic.

Which is more important? This is all hypothetical so I'll prove right now why it was basically the most important play.

The Crumpler fumble would have still be short of the 1st down by a foot if he hadn't fumbled thus resulting in a 4th down and a FG. They ended up getting a FG a few plays later due to the fact the fumble was so close to the goal line and they received good field position. Potential 3 point swing but ended up costing nothing. Missed call more important than this play? Check.

The White fumble. Clock was winding down in the 2nd half... bad down and distance... not enough time to get it in the end zone... field goal try likely or nothing...potential 3 point swing. Check.

Collins INT. There was no chance for points on this drive unless he converted a miracle pass instead of throwing a pick. Out of FG range to begin with. No real potential change in score. Dumb TO - but not a costly one. Check.

Missed FG... not much too this.. just a missed FG... potential 3 point swing. Check.

The missed call led to a potential 3-10 point swing depending on whether the Titans score a FG or TD or nothing. It has the most potential to be the biggest swing points wise.. the Ravens score 3 on their FG because they didn't have to punt... or the Titans get the ball back and score either 3 or 7 or nothing - you can't argue that and that's why it was the biggest play based on which would have changed the outcome the most.

The Crumpler play WOULD have been the most important and guaranteed IF it didn't lead to a Titans FG anyway... but it did due to bad field position for the Ravens.... OR if Crumpler had crossed the first down line and not fumbled - but he was short.

Also, the fact that the Titans had no control of this part makes it even more meaningful - not that it isn't already the most meaningful due to the reason I stated above.

You have to realize this is all based on circumstances and how it influenced the outcome. Its not like it was a missed delay of game at the start of the 2nd quarter when the drive was just starting. All of the variables listed above and point swings are what made that play the biggest of the game. If those don't change your mind - nothing will... but its simply obvious which had the biggest potential affect on the final score.

 

[RCKYT0P]

Which is more important? This is all hypothetical so I'll prove right now why it was basically the most important play.

The Crumpler fumble would have still be short of the 1st down by a foot if he hadn't fumbled thus resulting in a 4th down and a FG. They ended up getting a FG a few plays later due to the fact the fumble was so close to the goal line and they received good field position. Potential 3 point swing but ended up costing nothing. Missed call more important than this play? Check.

The White fumble. Clock was winding down in the 2nd half... bad down and distance... not enough time to get it in the end zone... field goal try likely or nothing...potential 3 point swing. Check.

Collins INT. There was no chance for points on this drive unless he converted a miracle pass instead of throwing a pick. Out of FG range to begin with. No real potential change in score. Dumb TO - but not a costly one. Check.

Missed FG... not much too this.. just a missed FG... potential 3 point swing. Check.

The missed call led to a potential 3-10 point swing depending on whether the Titans score a FG or TD or nothing. It has the most potential to be the biggest swing points wise.. the Ravens score 3 on their FG because they didn't have to punt... or the Titans get the ball back and score either 3 or 7 or nothing - you can't argue that and that's why it was the biggest play based on which would have changed the outcome the most.

The Crumpler play WOULD have been the most important and guaranteed IF it didn't lead to a Titans FG anyway... but it did due to bad field position for the Ravens.... OR if Crumpler had crossed the first down line and not fumbled - but he was short.

Also, the fact that the Titans had no control of this part makes it even more meaningful - not that it isn't already the most meaningful due to the reason I stated above.

You have to realize this is all based on circumstances and how it influenced the outcome. Its not like it was a missed delay of game at the start of the 2nd quarter when the drive was just starting. All of the variables listed above and point swings are what made that play the biggest of the game. If those don't change your mind - nothing will... but its simply obvious which had the biggest potential affect on the final score.

We are going to have to agree to disagree.

We could do hypotheticals all day. If they had done this and if they had done that.

Bruno...I think we are both dead set on what we think about the one no call of the delay of game. This is usually the case when I try and argue anything that is related to the officials.

You say the circumstances dictate the importance of the call. I think it all builds during the game to cause a team to win or lose. Sure, this play is going to be scrutinized much more happening when it did as opposed to on 2nd down sometime in the first quarter. Had it happened in the 1st quarter and the Ravens scored...it still would not be talked about as much as it is now.

 

[grimvol]

And if the roles were reversed and this so called "no call" happened when the Titans had the ball and they then kicked the FG and won the game......no body on here would be crying about this.
you all would be saying "The Ravens deserved that call against them"
Titans lost, Ravens won...get over it.

 

[ladyVOLfan333]

I disagree...if the roles had been reversed the Raven fans would and should be just as mad and upset as the Titan fans are...
Poor officiating either way you look at it.

 

[Heath Shuler]

Or was it the turnovers and penalty's.

My vote says it was the better team they played against...

 

[RCKYT0P]

I disagree...if the roles had been reversed the Raven fans would and should be just as mad and upset as the Titan fans are...
Poor officiating either way you look at it.

One call does not equal poor officiaiting

 

[Bassmanbruno]

My vote says it was the better team they played against...

Lol - you obviously didn't watch the game.

 

[alaVOL]

Or was it the turnovers and penalty's.

Nope!

The missed call certainly didn't help though, of course the Raven's might have picked up a first down anyway and keep moving. There are numerous holds and holding penalties not called during games as well, so it's awfully hard to say a 5 yard penalty COST them when so many other BIG turnovers really cost the Titans.

The loss still sucks.....hard to get over the missed opportunities, the real reason Tennessee lost. :furious3:

 

[ladyVOLfan333]

One call does not equal poor officiaiting

In a big game that important; I say it does.
You have your opinion, I have mine and I don't think either of us can change the other's mind. :hi:

 

[DC Vol]

Regardless if the Titans won or not... CJ got a high ankle sprain, and we had no chance to beat the Steelers 2x in a season without him.

 

[tnvolsfan85]

One call does not equal poor officiaiting

Yes it does when it is a game that is that close. I mean the Titans had several opportunities themselves but that non-call and when they called a Personal Foul on David Stewart was bad especially since they did not call a PF on Ray Lewis and there was someone else when they bent CJ back.