What is fundamental Islam??

#26
#26
yah, and thats why a religious wrting should always be in the vernaculor, thank you Martin Luther
 
#28
#28
MontereyVol said:
Not bad.
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To take it a step further those in power (both political and religious) see that their brand of Islam is at odds with the world culture we see today. They know that what they are selling (a license to rape, kill and steal from those that don't believe as you) cannot exist in our new global society and will do anything they can to slow down or stop the spread in their strongholds.
 
#29
#29
MontereyVol said:
Not really, most of these kids are being groomed to make money for the family or take care of it. What you are describing is what sales to a media market.
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That is what the kids who are being taught at home are learning. However there is a big trend in their cultures to be taught at the Madrassas(sp?) and there they learn to hate the west and are taught that everything western is corrupt and by muslim law should be destroyed.
 
#30
#30
MontereyVol said:
Why? Do you not think learning first hand would lead to some insight?
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Sounds to me like you are contradicting yourself. If the kids are taught to idol worship the suicide bombers like our kids do athletes, I would say they are being groomed for the same behavior.

MontereyVol said:
Nope, these kids idol worship those guys like we do our athletes, but most are not groomed for suicide bombing.
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MontereyVol said:
Because of what the imams, who interpret the Koran for them, tell them is their reward for doing so.
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So there is a promised reward for this behavior from their spiritual leaders? Again how is this not grooming a desired behavior?
 
#31
#31
KB5252 said:
That is what the kids who are being taught at home are learning. However there is a big trend in their cultures to be taught at the Madrassas(sp?) and there they learn to hate the west and are taught that everything western is corrupt and by muslim law should be destroyed.
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While the Madrassas are growing exponentially in number its a small number of their population currently. the bolded part is interesting, since there is a rift in thinking among Islam scholars on that interpretation of the Koran. This is heading in the direction of my argument. Why, is the side that thinks the Koran is being manipulated in its order by the radical leaders to fit their agenda losing ground?
 
#32
#32
gsvol said:
Well don't leave out stupidity, although we are on the same page in our feelings about ignorance.

Now, I'm glad that you finally admitted that Barrack Hussein Obama is of Arabic descent but then you said you questioned some of my other points.

I asked what points would you then like to discuss but I didn't see your reply.

Could have gotten lost in one of those long threads.

So I ask again, what point is it that I have made that you question??

Well discuss it like two open minded adults and seek the truth of whatever matter it is that you want to discuss.
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In the thread you are referencing I challenged 4 or 5 of your points. I only asked that you come up with some substantive evidence to back up your claims.

and the ignorance thing wasn't necessarily directed at anyone in particular, just the idea that Islam is bad, in general.

Also, I didn't concede the point on the Arab-American thing, only that it is possible that it is as descriptive as African-American.
 
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#33
#33
MontereyVol said:
While the Madrassas are growing exponentially in number its a small number of their population currently. the bolded part is interesting, since there is a rift in thinking among Islam scholars on that interpretation of the Koran. This is heading in the direction of my argument. Why, is the side that thinks the Koran is being manipulated in its order by the radical leaders to fit their agenda losing ground?
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Again a great question with many answers.

I will key in on this one though. There has been a very well organized effort in that part of the world to push their agenda via the internet (funny because it is a major part of western culture) and other forms of media. They have been effective at using it as a recruiting tool by glorifying suicide bombers and billing all those who fight as the resistance. Our military presence has helped lend some credibility to that claim.
 
#34
#34
KB5252 said:
Again a great question with many answers.

I will key in on this one though. There has been a very well organized effort in that part of the world to push their agenda via the internet (funny because it is a major part of western culture) and other forms of media. They have been effective at using it as a recruiting tool by glorifying suicide bombers and billing all those who fight as the resistance. Our military presence has helped lend some credibility to that claim.
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for the common Muslim, fear is making them turn to the one constant in their life.
 
#36
#36
emainvol said:
In the thread you are referencing I challenged 4 or 5 of your points. I only asked that you come up with some substantive evidence to back up your claims.

and the ignorance thing wasn't necessarily directed at anyone in particular, just the idea that Islam is bad, in general.

Also, I didn't concede the point on the Arab-American thing, only that it is possible that it is as descriptive as African-American.
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He doesn't do that part.

No matter how much you ask.
 
#38
#38
MontereyVol said:
Right now, we are.
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I think we play a factor. I would say we just threw a little gasoline on a fire that has been flaring up on and off for many years.

As I stated before I think those in power (political and religious) know that Islam is not conducive to the new world society we all live in. They know that Islam as interpreted literally is at odds with everything civil. In order for them to truly join this society they have to come to a self realization about Islam and they are reluctant to do so.

It is not a coincidence that every place with significant populations of Muslims there are clashes.
 
#39
#39
KB5252 said:
I think we play a factor. I would say we just threw a little gasoline on a fire that has been flaring up on and off for many years.

As I stated before I think those in power (political and religious) know that Islam is not conducive to the new world society we all live in. They know that Islam as interpreted literally is at odds with everything civil. In order for them to truly join this society they have to come to a self realization about Islam and they are reluctant to do so.

It is not a coincidence that every place with significant populations of Muslims there are clashes.
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Yeah, there aren't clashes in Christian nations or areas at all. (WWI, WWII, American Civil War, War of 1812, Revolutionary War)

Remember, the victor writes the history of the war. Always.
 
#40
#40
lawgator1 said:
Yeah, there aren't clashes in Christian nations or areas at all. (WWI, WWII, American Civil War, War of 1812, Revolutionary War)

Remember, the victor writes the history of the war. Always.
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I am speaking of right now. Virtually every war or skirmish being waged involves Muslims. They clash with Hindus, Americans, Europeans, in Malaysia.

I will not deny that terrible things have been done in the name of Christianity. What I am talking about is right here, right now there are either skirmishes, battles or all out war in virtually every place they mix with those who do not believe as they do. The same can be said for no other religion today.
 
#41
#41
lawgator1 said:
Yeah, there aren't clashes in Christian nations or areas at all. (WWI, WWII, American Civil War, War of 1812, Revolutionary War)

Remember, the victor writes the history of the war. Always.
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You could make this argument, but I would believe he would win by talking about the level of animosity.

back to KB, The coincidence of large Muslim populations tending to clash may be the most obvious answer to that statement or maybe its something else? What else do all those populations have in common, the level of poverty is greater.
 
#42
#42
emainvol said:
In the thread you are referencing I challenged 4 or 5 of your points. I only asked that you come up with some substantive evidence to back up your claims.

and the ignorance thing wasn't necessarily directed at anyone in particular, just the idea that Islam is bad, in general.

Also, I didn't concede the point on the Arab-American thing, only that it is possible that it is as descriptive as African-American.
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You didn't mention any particular number of challenges but what exactly do you challenge? I will address that. (I don't remember even what thread that was, could you be more specific??)

One could argue that Islamic Berbers and other tribes of North Africa who conquered Spain and Portugal and attacked France were Afro-American also, but that would be a stretch, at least as the term has been used in contemporary American political debates.

One could also argue that the Arabic rulers of Sudan are African, even though they are Arab-African and have made war on and taken slaves from the indigenous Negro African population for centuries, just as have the Somalian Arab-Africans that are the forefathers of Barack Hussein Obama!
 
#43
#43
MontereyVol said:
You could make this argument, but I would believe he would win by talking about the level of animosity.

back to KB, The coincidence of large Muslim populations tending to clash may be the most obvious answer to that statement or maybe its something else? What else do all those populations have in common, the level of poverty is greater.
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This is very true and goes back to my original response. There is another component at work here and that is the lack of value placed on education by the average Muslim. Either that or in some cases the lack of access to education for the average Muslim. Either way it is a problem that the Muslim community brings on itself. Only they can change that.
 
#44
#44
KB5252 said:
This is very true and goes back to my original response. There is another component at work here and that is the lack of value placed on education by the average Muslim. Either that or in some cases the lack of access to education for the average Muslim. Either way it is a problem that the Muslim community brings on itself. Only they can change that.
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The Wahhabist message just doesn't work very well unless those listening are fervent believers or just stupid. Education is way down the priority list for those types and those wanting full blown theocracies.
 
#45
#45
KB5252 said:
This is very true and goes back to my original response. There is another component at work here and that is the lack of value placed on education by the average Muslim. Either that or in some cases the lack of access to education for the average Muslim. Either way it is a problem that the Muslim community brings on itself. Only they can change that.
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Or that Islam seeks out areas that already were poor in the areas of education. Watch how Islam spreads using that hypothesis and you will see why and how it grows.

Your correct though, once rooted in an area it won't allow for education outside the teaching of the Koran.

Its not religious warfare, its class warfare.
 
#46
#46
MontereyVol said:
Or that Islam seeks out areas that already were poor in the areas of education. Watch how Islam spreads using that hypothesis and you will see why and how it grows.

Your correct though, once rooted in an area it won't allow for education outside the teaching of the Koran.

Its not religious warfare, its class warfare.
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But that would make it both then wouldn't it? They conduct class warfare by the instrument of faith.
 
#48
#48
MontereyVol said:
Or that Islam seeks out areas that already were poor in the areas of education. Watch how Islam spreads using that hypothesis and you will see why and how it grows.

Your correct though, once rooted in an area it won't allow for education outside the teaching of the Koran.

Its not religious warfare, its class warfare.
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it's hard to really call it class warfare, because they don't use the carrot of a better life when roles are reversed as a mantra. They're more about the inherent sin in money and doing anything but living the Koran.
 
#49
#49
BigPapaVol said:
it's hard to really call it class warfare, because they don't use the carrot of a better life when roles are reversed as a mantra. They're more about the inherent sin in money and doing anything but living the Koran.
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But there is a huge drop off of radicalism in the areas where life is good for Muslims.
 
#50
#50
gsvol said:
You didn't mention any particular number of challenges but what exactly do you challenge? I will address that. (I don't remember even what thread that was, could you be more specific??)

One could argue that Islamic Berbers and other tribes of North Africa who conquered Spain and Portugal and attacked France were Afro-American also, but that would be a stretch, at least as the term has been used in contemporary American political debates.

One could also argue that the Arabic rulers of Sudan are African, even though they are Arab-African and have made war on and taken slaves from the indigenous Negro African population for centuries, just as have the Somalian Arab-Africans that are the forefathers of Barack Hussein Obama!
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I think this is the post you are referring to.

http://www.volnation.com/forum/politics/64905-more-class-libs-post2035989.html#post2035989
 
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