What is fundamental Islam??

[therealUT]

That is an absurd statement and you know it. There is no legit comparison between the two scenarios.

There absolutely is a legitimate comparison. The scale is different, however, the principle is the exact same.

 

[rjd970]

This should pretty well put to rest the notion that Islam in inherently a religion of peace:

(...from "What the World Thinks in 2002"...all sums do not add to 100%)

Is Suicide Bombing in Defense of Islam Justifiable?

Is Suicide Bombing in Defense of Islam Ever Justifiable?

Also consider.....

Countries like Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Egypt, Iran, Sudan, Iraq, and Palestinian territories are not listed here. These numbers are disgusting. Even in Turkey, where they hold democratic elections and are more of the progressive Islamic types, 1 in 5 think suicide bombing is justifiable at least some of the time.

 

[lawgator1]

I wonder what the numbers would be in this country for the question:


Is suicide bombing in defense of Christianity EVER justifiable?

 

[Headed For Home]

There absolutely is a legitimate comparison. The scale is different, however, the principle is the exact same.

If that is such a legitimate comparison answer me this. How many abortion clinic bombings have there been in the last 10 years and how many suicide bombing by Islamic terrorist have there been in the last 2 months.

Looking at the answers you will see these two scenarios are apples and oranges.

 

[gsvol]

I wonder what the numbers would be in this country for the question:


Is suicide bombing in defense of Christianity EVER justifiable?

You wonder some very weird crap.

Name the first Christian organization that condones and promotes suicide bombings

Name the first Christian suicide bomber.

Name the first Cristian organization that promises to compensate the families of suicide bombers.

Whatever limb you first crawled out upon, you have now successfully sawed off, happy landings.

Oh wait, who received by far the most campaign money from wall street????

 

[therealUT]

If that is such a legitimate comparison answer me this. How many abortion clinic bombings have there been in the last 10 years and how many suicide bombing by Islamic terrorist have there been in the last 2 months.

Looking at the answers you will see these two scenarios are apples and oranges.

Once again, you are discussing the scale of the events not the fundamental principles that are driving the perpetrators. If you want to see a correlation though, check out how many abortion clinics were attacked during the Clinton years compared to the Bush years. Those statistics imply that when people feel peaceful channels are hopeless they resort to violent means.

 

[Headed For Home]

Once again, you are discussing the scale of the events not the fundamental principles that are driving the perpetrators. If you want to see a correlation though, check out how many abortion clinics were attacked during the Clinton years compared to the Bush years. Those statistics imply that when people feel peaceful channels are hopeless they resort to violent means.

You keep on in your own litle world there. The rest of us will continue here in the real one.

 

[KB5252]

I wonder what the numbers would be in this country for the question:


Is suicide bombing in defense of Christianity EVER justifiable?

I would say the percentage answering yes to that question would be less than 1%.

 

[therealUT]

I would say the percentage answering yes to that question would be less than 1%.

Try it this way:

Is killing someone in the name of Christianity ever justifiable?

Is giving up your own life in the name of Christianity ever justifiable?

I can almost guarantee you that between 15-40% of Christians, which is a conservative estimate, in my opinion, would answer "yes" to both questions.

 

[KB5252]

Try it this way:

Is killing someone in the name of Christianity ever justifiable?

Is giving up your own life in the name of Christianity ever justifiable?

I can almost guarantee you that between 15-40% of Christians, which is a conservative estimate, in my opinion, would answer "yes" to both questions.

Maybe but if we put it in the context of suicide bombing (blowing up yourself as well as people who have done you no wrong) Christians would say that is wrong 99.9% of the time.

 

[lawgator1]

You wonder some very weird crap.

Name the first Christian organization that condones and promotes suicide bombings

Name the first Christian suicide bomber.

Name the first Cristian organization that promises to compensate the families of suicide bombers.

Whatever limb you first crawled out upon, you have now successfully sawed off, happy landings.

Oh wait, who received by far the most campaign money from wall street????

I would say the percentage answering yes to that question would be less than 1%.

Try it this way:

Is killing someone in the name of Christianity ever justifiable?

Is giving up your own life in the name of Christianity ever justifiable?

I can almost guarantee you that between 15-40% of Christians, which is a conservative estimate, in my opinion, would answer "yes" to both questions.

Maybe but if we put it in the context of suicide bombing (blowing up yourself as well as people who have done you no wrong) Christians would say that is wrong 99.9% of the time.

My point was that its often the way the question gets asked that can drive numbers which, to the uninformed, would seem way out of proportion.

While I do not know of any suicide bombers in the history of Christianity, I know that there have been thousands who have killed in the name of Christianity. or who have gone into battle thinking they probably would not come out alive because of their faith.

 

[KB5252]

My point was that its often the way the question gets asked that can drive numbers which, to the uninformed, would seem way out of proportion.

While I do not know of any suicide bombers in the history of Christianity, I know that there have been thousands who have killed in the name of Christianity. or who have gone into battle thinking they probably would not come out alive because of their faith.

I agree it would help to know exactly how the question was posed to put it in context.

Regardless of how the question was asked it is still indicative of the acceptance of killing innocent people to promote Islam by a significant portion of the Muslim community as a whole.

 

[Headed For Home]

My point was that its often the way the question gets asked that can drive numbers which, to the uninformed, would seem way out of proportion.

While I do not know of any suicide bombers in the history of Christianity, I know that there have been thousands who have killed in the name of Christianity. or who have gone into battle thinking they probably would not come out alive because of their faith.

You keep going back to historic events where Christians were guilty of atrocities. I am not making any arguement based on the right and wrong of the Crusades or any other historical event. The argument that I and I think most of us are making is directly linked to present day not the distant past.

 

[lawgator1]

You keep going back to historic events where Christians were guilty of atrocities. I am not making any arguement based on the right and wrong of the Crusades or any other historical event. The argument that I and I think most of us are making is directly linked to present day not the distant past.

You can't separate them just because its convenient. No major religion has escaped a period where its leaders bastardized the principles upon which it was founded in order to seize or maintain power. Same thing going on now with radical Islam.

 

[KB5252]

You can't separate them just because its convenient. No major religion has escaped a period where its leaders bastardized the principles upon which it was founded in order to seize or maintain power. Same thing going on now with radical Islam.

There is one element that was missing in other periods of history, the ties that we have as a global community add an even more threatening element that there ever was before. At a time when people of differing religion are coming together Islam is going in a different direction and becoming more violent.

 

[gsvol]

You can't separate them just because its convenient. No major religion has escaped a period where its leaders bastardized the principles upon which it was founded in order to seize or maintain power. Same thing going on now with radical Islam.

Your arguments equating Christianity and Islam aren't just tedious and tiresome, they are absolutely boring and so far fetched as to be mind numbing.

The same thing is not going on with Islam now!!!

The basic tenant of Islam is world domination religiously, economically and politically and has been from day one, there is no denying that!!!

You can study both the texts of Islam and/or study it's bloody history and come to no other conclusion.

 

[lawgator1]

There is one element that was missing in other periods of history, the ties that we have as a global community add an even more threatening element that there ever was before. At a time when people of differing religion are coming together Islam is going in a different direction and becoming more violent.

Valid point.

Your arguments equating Christianity and Islam aren't just tedious and tiresome, they are absolutely boring and so far fetched as to be mind numbing.

The same thing is not going on with Islam now!!!

The basic tenant of Islam is world domination religiously, economically and politically and has been from day one, there is no denying that!!!

You can study both the texts of Islam and/or study it's bloody history and come to no other conclusion.

Yeah, those crusaders weren't interested in world domination or expanding empires, at all.

 

[Pepe_Silvia]

Quote:
Originally Posted by KB5252
There is one element that was missing in other periods of history, the ties that we have as a global community add an even more threatening element that there ever was before. At a time when people of differing religion are coming together Islam is going in a different direction and becoming more violent.


Valid point.




Quote:
Originally Posted by gsvol
Your arguments equating Christianity and Islam aren't just tedious and tiresome, they are absolutely boring and so far fetched as to be mind numbing.

The same thing is not going on with Islam now!!!

The basic tenant of Islam is world domination religiously, economically and politically and has been from day one, there is no denying that!!!

You can study both the texts of Islam and/or study it's bloody history and come to no other conclusion.


Yeah, those crusaders weren't interested in world domination or expanding empires, at all.

Christians and Jews gave up killing "in the name of God" many years ago. Muslims, on the other hand, have only grown more violent.

 

[lawgator1]

Christians and Jews gave up killing "in the name of God" many years ago. Muslims, on the other hand, have only grown more violent.

I am not arguing the two are equal now. But the way this is being phrased is as an indictment of the ENTIRE religion as inherently violent. Look at gsvol's wackiness. He claims it is simply an axiomatic part of Islam in its entitrey to try to kill westerners.

My point is that at a given point in time you could have said the same thing about Christianity. We "got over it," so to speak. Why can't they, if they realize more stable economic and political institutions, as we have?

 

[Headed For Home]

I am not arguing the two are equal now. But the way this is being phrased is as an indictment of the ENTIRE religion as inherently violent. Look at gsvol's wackiness. He claims it is simply an axiomatic part of Islam in its entitrey to try to kill westerners.

My point is that at a given point in time you could have said the same thing about Christianity. We "got over it," so to speak. Why can't they, if they realize more stable economic and political institutions, as we have?

It's really pretty simple. Their holy booktells them to conquer the world. This is vastly different than anything in the Bible.

 

[rjd970]

Christians and Jews gave up killing "in the name of God" many years ago. Muslims, on the other hand, have only grown more violent.

Wrong.

There mindset and intent hasn't changed for 1300 years. They are just armed with 21st century weapons now. The violence hasn't changed other than the fact that they can do it on a wider scale and more efficiently.

 

[rjd970]

It's really pretty simple. Their holy booktells them to conquer the world. This is vastly different than anything in the Bible.

The OT is rife is genocide and intolerance.

 

[Headed For Home]

The OT is rife is genocide and intolerance.

you need abetter understanding of Chritianity.

 

[gsvol]

Yeah, those crusaders weren't interested in world domination or expanding empires, at all.

Still as I remarked, tedious and boring.

The crusades were more about Europeans defending themselves than about expanding empires.

No one today thinks of Egypt, Lebanon, Syria and Iraq among others as centers of Christian learning but they were before the onslaught of Islam.

Western Europe did respond to muslim jihad with it's crusades but that was only in response to what the muslims had done and islam has never for one day renounced it's jihad on the rest of the world.

Here is a very very well written article on the topic for anyone who wants to learn a bit or refresh their memory concerning the crusades and islam.

Ha!

 

[therealUT]

Maybe but if we put it in the context of suicide bombing (blowing up yourself as well as people who have done you no wrong) Christians would say that is wrong 99.9% of the time.

They would say that based solely on the wording, not the actual context, philosophy, or critical thought behind such wording. Hence the reason I broke it up for you and you responded with "maybe".

Not so solid ground anymore, huh?