What is the extent of voting fraud here in America?

#51
#51
Again, the record of actual instances of people showing up and voting under someone else's registration is very, very small. Yet, these laws keep getting implemented BY GOP LEGISLATURES AND GOVERNORS, sometimes at significant expense.

Anyone who does not admit that they are just a hurdle to reduce the Dem turnout is simply lying. No question about it.
 
#52
#52
gsvol said:
No actually I've been cutting up some venisen and duck to go in the gumbo I'me cooking for the Daytona party Sunday.

Why has the thread degenerated into a name calling, mud slinging exibition of stupidity in which some stupid jerk tries to turn the thread into a personal attack on me??

I'll look in on it as soon as I get a chance, am I a coward for not replying to the women against islam thread?? How does one reply to such jeuvenile competition to win the 'most inane and irrevelent' award?
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Thank you, this stupid jerk looks forward to your insight!
 
#53
#53
lawgator1 said:
Again, the record of actual instances of people showing up and voting under someone else's registration is very, very small. Yet, these laws keep getting implemented BY GOP LEGISLATURES AND GOVERNORS, sometimes at significant expense.

Anyone who does not admit that they are just a hurdle to reduce the Dem turnout is simply lying. No question about it.
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Quite frankly if it stops the grave yard crew from voting for the Dems, then I am all for it.
 
#55
#55
milohimself said:
That was complete nonsense. They don't require you to have a ham sandwich on you to vote.

My point is that I need my ID for every day business. It is just a necessary part of life in today's world.


That's entirely beside the point. A state making you pay for something before you can vote is unconstitutional.
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I have to buy gasoline to drive to the polls, I have to have car insurance to drive there. There is no harm in needing proof of ID to vote unless you are up to no good.
 
#57
#57
Headed For Home said:
I have to buy gasoline to drive to the polls, I have to have car insurance to drive there. There is no harm in needing proof of ID to vote unless you are up to no good.
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You don't have to pay to get around. You can walk to the polls. Senior centers typically get busing to polling stations. Same goes for some low income neighborhoods.

If ID's were free, I would agree with you whole-heartedly, but they cost money, ipso facto states with voter ID laws require people to pay for something in order to vote.
 
#58
#58
milohimself said:
You don't have to pay to get around. You can walk to the polls. Senior centers typically get busing to polling stations. Same goes for some low income neighborhoods.

If ID's were free, I would agree with you whole-heartedly, but they cost money, ipso facto states with voter ID laws require people to pay for something in order to vote.
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I object much more to the hassle factor, which is intentional.
 
#59
#59
milohimself said:
You don't have to pay to get around. You can walk to the polls. Senior centers typically get busing to polling stations. Same goes for some low income neighborhoods.

If ID's were free, I would agree with you whole-heartedly, but they cost money, ipso facto states with voter ID laws require people to pay for something in order to vote.
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That is a VERY weak argument.
 
#61
#61
lawgator1 said:
Ok, that Fox article is poorly written.

We agree on that.

However, if you think it says that there were 24,000 registrations to one house I will once again say that your reading comprehension skills are not what they should be.
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“The first thing we started to do was look at houses with more than six voters in them" Engelbrecht said, because those houses were the most likely to have fraudulent registrations attached to them. "Most voting districts had 1,800 if they were Republican and 2,400 of these houses if they were Democratic . . .
"But we came across one with 24,000, and that was where we started looking."
It was Houston's poorest and predominantly black district, which has led some to accuse the group of targeting poor black areas. But Engelbrecht rejects that, saying, "It had nothing to do with politics. It was just the numbers.”

I will admit that I also had the advantage of watching the reports on TV here in Dallas. Some good, some very poor, but all seemed to revolve around the same set of facts.

Houston has a history of democrat mayors (I supported Bill White in the last gubernatorial election) and I believe this is probably more an illegal alien issue than a D vs R issue. Still, it's an issue that needs to be resolved.
 
#64
#64
KentheOrange said:
“The first thing we started to do was look at houses with more than six voters in them" Engelbrecht said, because those houses were the most likely to have fraudulent registrations attached to them. "Most voting districts had 1,800 if they were Republican and 2,400 of these houses if they were Democratic . . .
"But we came across one with 24,000, and that was where we started looking."
It was Houston's poorest and predominantly black district, which has led some to accuse the group of targeting poor black areas. But Engelbrecht rejects that, saying, "It had nothing to do with politics. It was just the numbers.”

I will admit that I also had the advantage of watching the reports on TV here in Dallas. Some good, some very poor, but all seemed to revolve around the same set of facts.

Houston has a history of democrat mayors (I supported Bill White in the last gubernatorial election) and I believe this is probably more an illegal alien issue than a D vs R issue. Still, it's an issue that needs to be resolved.
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My point was it was not one house with 24,000 registrations. It was a district that had 24,000 houses where there were multiple registrations. Pretty big difference.

And, more importantly, all that means is that these registrations are bleeding over, one from the next. People move, they don't change it, and the system just keeps it on record until somehow the thing is reset.

I would agree we should clean up the voter registration rolls. Whether it is to prevent fraud or just to streamline the process and have better information available, either way, that's fine.

What pisses me off is the far right pretending that these outdated registration rolls and problems with people not keeping up with them IS voter fraud. It isn't. Not even close.

It remains a fact that actual voter fraud is incredibly low. So low that it is not worth worrying about, much less spending millions and millions of dollars to combat this nonexistent problem.

And the solution is to clean up the rolls, not trot out this notion that if people just got id's it would all work out. That is nonsense. It is classic bait and switch by the GOP, substituting "voter fraud"for outdated voter rolls.

The two are not the same.
 
#65
#65
lawgator1 said:
My point was it was not one house with 24,000 registrations. It was a district that had 24,000 houses where there were multiple registrations. Pretty big difference.

And, more importantly, all that means is that these registrations are bleeding over, one from the next. People move, they don't change it, and the system just keeps it on record until somehow the thing is reset.

I would agree we should clean up the voter registration rolls. Whether it is to prevent fraud or just to streamline the process and have better information available, either way, that's fine.

What pisses me off is the far right pretending that these outdated registration rolls and problems with people not keeping up with them IS voter fraud. It isn't. Not even close.

It remains a fact that actual voter fraud is incredibly low. So low that it is not worth worrying about, much less spending millions and millions of dollars to combat this nonexistent problem.

And the solution is to clean up the rolls, not trot out this notion that if people just got id's it would all work out. That is nonsense. It is classic bait and switch by the GOP, substituting "voter fraud"for outdated voter rolls.

The two are not the same.
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Yet you go on and on about how requiring IDs is vote suppression and disenfranchisment. It isn't and it's not even close (to quote you).

The two are not the same.
 
#66
#66
volinbham said:
Yet you go on and on about how requiring IDs is vote suppression and disenfranchisment. It isn't and it's not even close (to quote you).

The two are not the same.
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The purpose is to keep people from registering and that falls disproportionately on the poor and the elderly, particularly minorities. Why do you think its ALWAYS the GOP behind these proposals, particularly when they gain new control over a Legislature or governorship?

Trying to cut down on votes likely to be for the other side is standard politics. But making crap up, this intentional blurring of the difference between the voter registrations being old and inaccurate in many instances with fraud, is mind numbingly dishonest.

And then they have the temerity to boot to try to make it look like the community activist groups are somehow conspiring with the black community to commit voter fraud. Part of the whole gestalt of subtly (and sometimes not so subtly) insinuating that its us (white upper class) against them (black and poor) and taking advantage of that racial suspicion so deeply embedded in the GOP base.
 
#67
#67
it's nothing like you describe. If you can't afford the $10 for the ID one will be provided for you.
 
#68
#68
utvolpj said:
it's nothing like you describe. If you can't afford the $10 for the ID one will be provided for you.
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Its not the money. Its being 90 years old, frail, and not terribly mobile, having to come up with your birth certificate and some kind of photo id, none of which you might be able to locate, and then having to go down to the registrar's office if you do find it. All to vote once a year, tops.

The GOP knows a lot of the folks they are targeting here just can't readily comply.

That's the whole point.
 
#69
#69
lawgator1 said:
Its not the money. Its being 90 years old, frail, and not terribly mobile, having to come up with your birth certificate and some kind of photo id, none of which you might be able to locate, and then having to go down to the registrar's office if you do find it. All to vote once a year, tops.

The GOP knows a lot of the folks they are targeting here just can't readily comply.

That's the whole point.
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and these people are always minorities without the ability to vote absentee? Sounds like a pretty racist assumption on your part
 
#70
#70
lawgator1 said:
The purpose is to keep people from registering and that falls disproportionately on the poor and the elderly, particularly minorities. Why do you think its ALWAYS the GOP behind these proposals, particularly when they gain new control over a Legislature or governorship?

Trying to cut down on votes likely to be for the other side is standard politics. But making crap up, this intentional blurring of the difference between the voter registrations being old and inaccurate in many instances with fraud, is mind numbingly dishonest.

And then they have the temerity to boot to try to make it look like the community activist groups are somehow conspiring with the black community to commit voter fraud. Part of the whole gestalt of subtly (and sometimes not so subtly) insinuating that its us (white upper class) against them (black and poor) and taking advantage of that racial suspicion so deeply embedded in the GOP base.
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You still are making the leap of faith that ID laws equal vote suppression and disenfranchisement. There's no proof.

Why all the registration fraud? What's the motivation? Could it be an attempt to encourage fraudulent voting?

You can't have it both ways - if registration fraud is distinct from voter fraud then so too is ID requirement distinct from suppression and disenfranchisement.

Just like the phony arguments you decry, you are using the same tactic to claim ID laws are akin to suppression and disenfranchisement.
 
#71
#71
LG, I feel sorry for you man. I can't imagine going through life and looking for color at every stop.
 
#72
#72
lawgator1 said:
Its not the money. Its being 90 years old, frail, and not terribly mobile, having to come up with your birth certificate and some kind of photo id, none of which you might be able to locate, and then having to go down to the registrar's office if you do find it. All to vote once a year, tops.

The GOP knows a lot of the folks they are targeting here just can't readily comply.

That's the whole point.
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2 trips instead of one? Oh the horrors!
 
#73
#73
utvolpj said:
it's nothing like you describe. If you can't afford the $10 for the ID one will be provided for you.
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Not everywhere. Depends on the state. Regular ID cards here are $44.50 and if you don't have the money for one, they'll tell you to go pound sand.
 
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