What is ultimately at stake tomorrow

#202
#202
OrangeTsar said:
Or you must admit the possibility that human logic and reason are incapable of understanding the mind and nature of a limitless being in the same way that the ant crawling across my floor is incapable of understanding quantum physics.
We really are arrogant little beings so much of the time.
There is no proof either for or against God. For whatever reason He had, God chose to ultimately ask for belief and trust.
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Or we can restate:

"Or you must admit the possibility that human logic and reason are incapable of understanding the mind and nature of a limitless universe in the same way that the ant crawling across my floor is incapable of understanding quantum physics."

There is no reason compelling us to assume it must be a "being". There is a problem with infinite regress for a creator, and if the answer is arbitrarily cutting it off as saying the creator or being is limitless or outside of time then there is nothing stopping from arbitrarily assigning that characteristic to the universe itself as being limitless or outside of time.
 
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#205
#205
rjd970 said:
Or we can restate:

"Or you must admit the possibility that human logic and reason are incapable of understanding the mind and nature of a limitless universe in the same way that the ant crawling across my floor is incapable of understanding quantum physics."

There is no reason compelling us to assume it must be a "being". There is a problem with infinite regress for a creator, and if the answer is arbitrarily cutting it off as saying the creator or being is limitless or outside of time then there is nothing stopping from arbitrarily assigning that characteristic to the universe itself as being limitless or outside of time.
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It is perfectly legitimate to assume a universe existing without the requirement for a creator. You can construct a totally consistent and coherent argument to that effect. But like my belief in a Creator, it cannot be proven and must be accepted on Faith (faith in human reason).
Everything we think we know in life requires some level of faith. Even the experiences I am sensing through my eyes and ears right now require me to decide to believe that are reliable and that I am not dreaming. Similarly science trusts in the accuracy of measurements and instruments. We can have 99.9999% confidence they are correct; but everything we do or believe ultimately requires a leap of faith.

In the Louvre in Paris there is an object known as the Mona Lisa. It is entirely plausible that there was no painter responsible. A random sequence of events could have caused a collection of organic oils and mineral pigments to assemble themselves into a pattern that we perceive to be an image of a smiling woman. I see the same object and assume that someone created it. No one can prove if either of us is correct however
 
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#209
#209
utvolpj said:
How is cutting wasteful spending is crashing the economy? Now I don't necessarily trust Musk in that role but the economically illiterate blog you link has no clue what's going on
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He's not the arbiter of what is government waste. Especially being that SpaceX suckles hard on the government teat.

Axing full federal agencies isn't "waste" cutting.
 
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#210
#210
jwells said:
He's not the arbiter of what is government waste. Especially being that SpaceX suckles hard on the government teat.

Axing full federal agencies isn't "waste" cutting.
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Fining him $100k for having water on the launchpad must be their way of getting it back.
 
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#211
#211
hog88 said:
If we had built off of the Apollo missions instead of abandoning exploration there isn't a reason we couldn't have had a colony on Mars by the mid-late 90's.
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I'm sure tRump could have Mars making Oxygen within24 hours of being elected. Rivers,lakes and fruit trees within the week
 
#212
#212
jwells said:
He's not the arbiter of what is government waste. Especially being that SpaceX suckles hard on the government teat.

Axing full federal agencies isn't "waste" cutting.
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Sure it is. Most federal agencies have a duplicate in every state.
 
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#214
#214
OrangeTsar said:
It all depends on how one wishes to define „habitable“. If you mean somewhere where you can walk around outside in your shirt sleeves; then a long time. If you mean somewhere where you can live under a dome and go outside with a thin pressure shell and an oxygen mask, Mars has you covered.
And Venus is quite habitable if you build giant airship cities. In the upper clouds, the temperature and air pressure are almost identical to earth. You would only need a tiny o2 line like in a hospital
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Mars is a bit nippy so that pressure shell would have to be well insulated. It seems very expensive and impractical to use a place that is so close to Earth and less livable than Earth as an escape gateway. Or does it have something needed for interstellar travel that Earth doesn't have?
 
#215
#215
jwells said:
Elon is on the ballot.

But it's not about space. It's about his want to absolutely destabilize the US Economy, wrecking the lives of Americans, while he and his rich friends rebuild it in their image.
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Sorry. Biden beat him to it.
 
#220
#220
OrangeTsar said:
It is perfectly legitimate to assume a universe existing without the requirement for a creator. You can construct a totally consistent and coherent argument to that effect. But like my belief in a Creator, it cannot be proven and must be accepted on Faith (faith in human reason).
Everything we think we know in life requires some level of faith. Even the experiences I am sensing through my eyes and ears right now require me to decide to believe that are reliable and that I am not dreaming. Similarly science trusts in the accuracy of measurements and instruments. We can have 99.9999% confidence they are correct; but everything we do or believe ultimately requires a leap of faith.

In the Louvre in Paris there is an object known as the Mona Lisa. It is entirely plausible that there was no painter responsible. A random sequence of events could have caused a collection of organic oils and mineral pigments to assemble themselves into a pattern that we perceive to be an image of a smiling woman. I see the same object and assume that someone created it. No one can prove if either of us is correct however
Click to expand...

As a reminder you said this:

"Or you must admit the possibility that human logic and reason are incapable of understanding the mind and nature of a limitless being in the same way that the ant crawling across my floor is incapable of understanding quantum physics."

That doesn't sound like a leap of faith..."you must admit". I am addressing that.

No, I don't have to admit, because assigning a creator doesn't get you out of the infinite regress problem no matter how much you say it does.
 
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#221
#221
EastTNVol6240 said:
Sorry. Biden beat him to it.
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He really didn't.
In 2020 when Congress began spending, the US and most the rest of the world made a decision: Stave off recession now and fight inflation later. Post-Covid inflation was a known thing. Now, fighting inflation? The US did better than basically everyone. Unemployment is down 2.6% vs Nov 2020 and the Stockmarket rose.

Inflation like we saw sucks, but it's literally the offset from people staying employed in 2020-2022 coupled with corporate BS seeing how far they could squeeze the consumer and blame it on "inflation."

Like, it's basic economics.

What did happen? Perception. People perceived that things were bad because of inflation because they didn't consider they'd be worse with recession nor did the consider how the US was doing vs the world to really grasp that we were on the front foot fighting it here.

What will wreck the economy? Trump's proposed tariffs and federal agency cuts. You'll get that recession.
 
#222
#222
hog88 said:
Sure it is. Most federal agencies have a duplicate in every state.
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Red states are about to find out hard where all that money comes from. They aren't fiscally responsible, they're welfare queens. Bout to learn what these 3-letter agencies do when the grants dry up.

Buckle up....if these cuts happen, TN is about to be broke.
 
#225
#225
jwells said:
Red states are about to find out hard where all that money comes from. They aren't fiscally responsible, they're welfare queens. Bout to learn what these 3-letter agencies do when the grants dry up.

Buckle up....if these cuts happen, TN is about to be broke.
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LOL

You think TN, FL, TX and GA are welfare states?
 
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