What is wrong with socialized medicine?

[kptvol]

I do apologize for spelling precedent wrong,I guess my opinions are based on the fact that i lack the ability to understand that if you have the resources then a medical facility has no issue with fixing what ails you,but if you lack the resources then your basically S.O.L.
I'm a firm believer in working hard for what you get,but i also believe needing medical care should not be about how much you have in your pocket.

Teddy Roosevelt used to speak about how we can't all live the good life. It's just the way the world works for all species. There's not enough to go around and there probably never will be.

 

[allvol123]

I do apologize for spelling precedent wrong,I guess my opinions are based on the fact that i lack the ability to understand that if you have the resources then a medical facility has no issue with fixing what ails you,but if you lack the resources then your basically S.O.L.
I'm a firm believer in working hard for what you get,but i also believe needing medical care should not be about how much you have in your pocket.

I don't believe that happens.


When you convince the following people:

construction workers
administrators
janitors
nurses
pharmacists
researchers
doctors
engineers


to work for free, then it won't.

 

[TENNFOLD1974]

Teddy Roosevelt used to speak about how we can't all live the good life. It's just the way the world works for all species. There's not enough to go around and there probably never will be.

Unfortunately you speak the truth....i do not disagree with that statement,it's just sad.

 

[rjd970]

I do apologize for spelling precedent wrong,I guess my opinions are based on the fact that i lack the ability to understand that if you have the resources then a medical facility has no issue with fixing what ails you,but if you lack the resources then your basically S.O.L.
I'm a firm believer in working hard for what you get,but i also believe needing medical care should not be about how much you have in your pocket.

I understand your point, but major medical insurance is not that out of reach. People need to ask themselves...do I have a cell phone...do I have cable...what kind of car do I drive...and then see if they still can't afford some medical insurance. People that are legitimately in dire financial circumstances won't be turned away under our current system, or in the socialized medicine model. But priorities and self-reliance for keeping yourself healthy need to be examined first.

Read my posts and you will find I am a little more liberal leaning than most on here, and even I can see that free medical care for everybody would be disasterous for the entire country. The simple truth is there is a reason we are primarily responsible for all major medical advances and anybody that needs first rate care comes to this country first.

 

[UT IE 95]

Who's to say you'll be looked after if it was socalized. You would be appointed a doctor who probably wouldn't give a rats ass if you lived or not. His pay has been capped and he's not in a very good mood. Ultimately the decision for you to get that high risk surgery isn't in your hands or the government controlled doctor. Your fate will be decided by some bureaucrat setting behind a desk that determines your surgery is to costly and you more than likely wouldn't live long anyway. Either that or they'd wait you out to see if you die first. It happens every day in britian and canada.

Doctors and teachers are cut from the same cloth. We think doctors that aren't pampered and paid ridiculous amounts of money will provide poor care. Yet we crap on the education providers and for some reason millions still show up and do a good job every day.

 

[allvol123]

Doctors and teachers are cut from the same cloth. We think doctors that aren't pampered and paid ridiculous amounts of money will provide poor care. Yet we crap on the education providers and for some reason millions still show up and do a good job every day.

Yea, that is what I want, medical care on par with the US public school system. Brilliant.

 

[UT IE 95]

Yea, that is what I want, medical care on par with the US public school system. Brilliant.

I'd venture that most family pratice doctors are on par with teachers that knock the kids over running for the door at the 3:00 bell.

 

[kiddiedoc]

I'd venture that most family pratice doctors are on par with teachers that knock the kids over running for the door at the 3:00 bell.

Then you would be extremely uninformed.

 

[allvol123]

I'd venture that most family pratice doctors are on par with teachers that knock the kids over running for the door at the 3:00 bell.

I don't know most family practice doctors, that is your call. Thinking you'll get the same care by turning the medical system into the equivalent of the public school pay system is absurd. You are welcome to take the rest of the medical visits for the rest of your life at the free clinic. Just make a donation.

I prefer to get bang for my buck. I investigate my doctors.

 

[UT IE 95]

I don't know most family practice doctors, that is your call. Thinking you'll get the same care by turning the medical system into the equivalent of the public school pay system is absurd. You are welcome to take the rest of the medical visits for the rest of your life at the free clinic. Just make a donation.

I prefer to get bang for my buck. I investigate my doctors.

I never proposed such a system. Just pointing out the descrepancy.

 

[kptvol]

Doctors and teachers are cut from the same cloth. We think doctors that aren't pampered and paid ridiculous amounts of money will provide poor care. Yet we crap on the education providers and for some reason millions still show up and do a good job every day.

Becoming a teacher isn't hard. Completely sacrificing 4 years of your life and 100 grand for med school, then going on for several more years being someone's bitch and making very little money isn't something people are going to do if there isn't some sort of reward.

 

[allvol123]

I never proposed such a system. Just pointing out the descrepancy.

I'd say you made some incorrect assumptions in pointing out your discrepancy.

 

[UT IE 95]

Then you would be extremely uninformed.

I've had several PCP's that were GP's in family practice clinics. Good for diagnosing a cough as a cough. I saw the light several years ago and went with an internal medicine specialist.

The GP's work on numbers. They make money on the tunstile count.

 

[kptvol]

I've had several PCP's that were GP's in family practice clinics. Good for diagnosing a cough as a cough. I saw the light several years ago and went with an internal medicine specialist.

The GP's work on numbers. They make money on the tunstile count.

The guy you're now seeing is making a lot more money.

 

[kiddiedoc]

To chime in from a physician standpoint, a few thoughts and responses to the above:

1. Placing the government in charge of how medical care is delivered is ridiculous. Physicians are educated and trained in the "art" of medicine. Caring for the sick isn't as easy as protocols and formulae, which would be used extensively in decisions made in a socialized system. In real-word terms: when you go to the doctor, do you care more what a Washingtonian with a calculator thinks is "cost-effective," or what your doc thinks will make you better? Also, there will be the enormous added expense of government administration in such a system.

2. The idea that doctors and teachers are "of the same cloth" has merits, but faults, as well. As a general rule, both have a desire for service and are willing to accept hardship (to an extent). However, a teaching degree requires 4 years and results in a job that has certain benefits, including a limited workday and significant vacation time. Physicians train for a MINIMUM of 11 years (4 college + 4 med school + 3-9 for residency and fellowship), many of which involve 80-hour work weeks or study. The typical physician workday is much longer than a teacher's and usually includes call and weekend hours. There has already been a drop in med school interest by qualified high-schoolers, and this would undoubtedly worsen with a socialized medical system.

3. The above statements regarding responsibility and accountability by those receiving government-provided healthcare are very accurate, in my experience. Without doubt, patients on Medicaid/Tenncare have a much higher no-show rate, make more "unnecessary" appointments (due to lack of a required copay, need for work/school notes, etc.), and generally take poorer care of themselves (drug and alcohol use, child neglect/abuse, nutrition/obesity, and compliance with medical care).

Just a few thoughts...

 

[kiddiedoc]

The guy you're now seeing is making a lot more money.

The 2008 American Medical Group Association actually reports only about a $9000 difference in average yearly pay between family practitioners and internists.

 

[UT IE 95]

I respect medical and education providers immensely. As a nation we provide free education. If someone has the means they can choose to seek alternate means from the government provided education system. The same system should work for the medical field as well.

 

[kptvol]

The 2008 American Medical Group Association actually reports only about a $9000 difference in average yearly pay between family practitioners and internists.

I was thinking more like 25-35k. Oh well, live and learn.

 

[UT IE 95]

The 2008 American Medical Group Association actually reports only about a $9000 difference in average yearly pay between family practitioners and internists.

My expense is the same. But my care and experience isn't even comparable.

 

[kptvol]

Yea, that is what I want, medical care on par with the US public school system. Brilliant.

I never proposed such a system. Just pointing out the descrepancy.

I respect medical and education providers immensely. As a nation we provide free education. If someone has the means they can choose to seek alternate means from the government provided education system. The same system should work for the medical field as well.

Have at it.

 

[allvol123]

Have at it.

Do we get the doctor/patient sex scandals if we're going to copy the US public education system? If so, I am changing my criteria for how I select my doctor.

 

[kptvol]

Do we get the doctor/patient sex scandals if we're going to copy the US public education system? If so, I am changing my criteria for how I select my doctor.

Also, you can't see your doctor in the Summer, the month of December, weekends, Labor Day, or after 3pm. If you have poor behavior, your doctor will punish you by taking your temperature rectally.

 

[UT IE 95]

Do we get the doctor/patient sex scandals if we're going to copy the US public education system? If so, I am changing my criteria for how I select my doctor.

I'm pretty sure those exist today, if that's your cup o tea.

 

[allvol123]

Also, you can't see your doctor in the Summer, the month of December, weekends, Labor Day, or after 3pm. If you have poor behavior, your doctor will punish you by taking your temperature rectally.

LOL.

I'm pretty sure those exist today, if that's your cup o tea.

Back on point. I think your idea is absurd. You're welcome to elaborate on it.

 

[UT IE 95]

Have at it.

ehh. I'm bored watching a crappy basketball game. I think the system exists today. I'm not proposing a system where all medical providers work under the government rules.