What is wrong with socialized medicine?

#76
#76
Daddy Gee said:
imo, the only two choices that anybody considers are sacrificing the few (poor) for the benefit of the many (rich/middle class) OR sacrificing the many (rich/middle class) for the sake of the few (poor). . . i.e. the current system v. socialized medicine. Is there not some middle ground?
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Sure there is. As much as I'd like to fix college football, the Congress should devote that same fervent attention to fixing our healthcare system. Maybe try and offer a tax incentive to those companies who will insure the sick and the poor.
 
#77
#77
The sick and poor have options now. We're already footing the bill. The problem i have with it is there is no magic pot of gold somewhere that everyone can get their hands in. Someone has to foot the bill and its the taxpayer that ultimately gets the shaft. Not much worth having is free in this world, thats just reality. Some people need a good shaking or slapping to wake up to the way things are. There has to be balance somewhere rich/poor, sick/healthy its the way things are and always have been. This is america not europe.
 
#78
#78
volinbham said:
Speaking as a teacher, I have no problem with an MD making what they make. No one can sue me for malpractice. While I can have a positive impact on someone's life, I can't drastically affect their health, quality of life or even whether they live or die if I make a mistake.

On the issue of payment - I was one of the uninsured. However, it was my choice. I was self-employed and didn't want to pay the high premiums for health insurance. Instead, I wanted HBO, import beers, more dinners out, bigger car payments, etc. No one owed me health care.
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I think elementary educators have a very stong role in long term health, quality of life and potentially life/death. Doctors for the most part are reactive. Teachers can be preventative.
 
#79
#79
amazing that people want the same group to run the DMV and healthcare
 
#80
#80
volinbham said:
On the issue of payment - I was one of the uninsured. However, it was my choice. I was self-employed and didn't want to pay the high premiums for health insurance. Instead, I wanted HBO, import beers, more dinners out, bigger car payments, etc. No one owed me health care.
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How dare you take responsibility for yourself and make a personal decision based on your situation at that time? Don't you realize we've got a government program that can do that for you?
 
#81
#81
UT IE 95 said:
I think elementary educators have a very stong role in long term health, quality of life and potentially life/death. Doctors for the most part are reactive. Teachers can be preventative.
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Sure, if there is absolutely no parenting around. Even without parenting around, you are vastly over emphasizing the role of these educators.
 
#83
#83
"emergency" health insurance i.e. "if i get hit by a car or get cancer i'll be covered 100%, but if i get a cold i pay 95%" is ridiculously cheap (like $50 a month for a healthy person). i don't feel sorry for people who don't have insurance.
 
#84
#84
I read that a large part of medical costs are ran up in the last 3 months of a person's life, extending what is often an inevitable death from illness. The mentality toward dying, which everyone will go through, is contributing to the costs.

People need an opportunity to go home and die with dignity, instead of hooked up to some artificial means keeping them alive a few months longer.
 
#85
#85
allvol123 said:
Sure, if there is absolutely no parenting around. Even without parenting around, you are vastly over emphasizing the role of these educators.
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We will just disagee on that. There is no way to over emphasize the role of educators on young people.
 
#86
#86
oklavol said:
I read that a large part of medical costs are ran up in the last 3 months of a person's life, extending what is often an inevitable death from illness. The mentality toward dying, which everyone will go through, is contributing to the costs.

People need an opportunity to go home and die with dignity, instead of hooked up to some artificial means keeping them alive a few months longer.
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I assume you have a will outlining this course of treatment? You know, in case you fall ill and can't communicate these wishes.
 
#87
#87
TENNFOLD1974 said:
I'm being sincere when saying this....please explain to me why this would be a bad thing,I just can't see the downside to everyone being able to be looked after if he or she gets sick.We all are going to get sick from time to time.
What other solutions are there for caring for the poor if they get sick(and I mean see real doctors....not students in some medical school), your thoughts?
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How efficient is the post office? Who is satisfied with public education?

Government controlled services suck.
 
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#88
#88
TENNFOLD1974 said:
I'm being sincere when saying this....please explain to me why this would be a bad thing,I just can't see the downside to everyone being able to be looked after if he or she gets sick.We all are going to get sick from time to time.
What other solutions are there for caring for the poor if they get sick(and I mean see real doctors....not students in some medical school), your thoughts?
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Holy mother of __________ and every thing Holy!

As mentioned before, bankrupting the country, medical care standards will drop to African standards.

What about personal freedom???????????

Or liberty??????????????

Screw government!
 
#89
#89
UT IE 95 said:
We will just disagee on that. There is no way to over emphasize the role of educators on young people.
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The point is that healthcare is not their primary role. I'm not sure I want teachers (other than maybe in Health Class) passing along nutrition advice.

A simple mistake on one day made by a teacher has limited impact on the well being of the student. The same is not true for healthcare providers.

Your argument would include any person that has influence on a young person having the equivalent impact on their health as a doctor does. That's a huge stretch.
 
#96
#96
This got barely touched on earlier in the thread but I think it'll be a real sticking point with a lot of people on both sides.

Dude gets injured running from the cops blowing through a light and smashes himself up. His health is my responsibility?

Dude attempts suicide but messes it up. Taxpayer's dollars?

Do we get all Logan's Run and decide at what point you've simply outlived your contribution to society? (sorry we have to pull the plug on granny but, let's face it, it's not like she's going to get well enough to get out in the garden again)

Are there going to be risk categories? Injured skydiving or snowskiing looked at differently?

So, um, how 'bout them illegal aliens?

The REAL sticky stuff is going to be lifestyle though. Should our money pay for health issues of the morbidly obese? How about smokers? Should everybody have to be drug tested? (If you're a crackhead you're not covered)

There's LOTS of questions, some that are going to be vehemently opposed regardless of which way it plays out.
 
#97
#97
three words "health care rationing"

it's the only way a socialized system can exist.
 
#98
#98
i follow a company that makes a robotic operating system that significantly reduces hospital time and side effects and significantly increases the likelyhood of recovery for multiple surgeries. virtually every major hospital in the united states has them. in all of europe and canada there is something like 20 machines total.
 
#99
#99
droski said:
i follow a company that makes a robotic operating system that significantly reduces hospital time and side effects and significantly increases the likelyhood of recovery for multiple surgeries. virtually every major hospital in the united states has them. in all of europe and canada there is something like 20 machines total.
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da Vinci?
 
#100
#100
hndog609 said:
This got barely touched on earlier in the thread but I think it'll be a real sticking point with a lot of people on both sides.

Dude gets injured running from the cops blowing through a light and smashes himself up. His health is my responsibility?

Dude attempts suicide but messes it up. Taxpayer's dollars?

Do we get all Logan's Run and decide at what point you've simply outlived your contribution to society? (sorry we have to pull the plug on granny but, let's face it, it's not like she's going to get well enough to get out in the garden again)

Are there going to be risk categories? Injured skydiving or snowskiing looked at differently?

So, um, how 'bout them illegal aliens?

The REAL sticky stuff is going to be lifestyle though. Should our money pay for health issues of the morbidly obese? How about smokers? Should everybody have to be drug tested? (If you're a crackhead you're not covered)

There's LOTS of questions, some that are going to be vehemently opposed regardless of which way it plays out.
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Those are all good points. Like i was saying, there is no magic pot of gold, no magic pile of money. We socialize medicine, we pay the bill for all the smokers, lazy people, obese people, all of them and the downright worthless too. How does the government get its money? From the people, so those that think its the government that is taking care of them, not really when we're paying the bill.

The misinformed believe that government is a self sustained entity and they're the ones paying the bill. Well we all know that is just not so. Its that imaginary i'm entitled too something crap. There are those that are just in a bad way. Then there are those that just milk the system for all its worth. I have no respect for the later.
 
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