What is wrong with socialized medicine?

#128
#128
I really honestly think most people think that if medicine is socialized that it's just going to be the same exact system... but "free." I got news for you, it's not. And lets say the quality is the same, do you honestly think that ten boxes of ho-hos and a diet coke (gotta watch that girlish figure ya know) for breakfast is going to fly in this new system? Ho ho, guess again. I know this has been touched on, but I'm going to drive this home. I guarantee you, that if the healthcare system is taken over, you will not be qualified for treatment if you: smoke, eat fast food regularly, even think about eating "junk food" (i leave those in quotes becuase that will be a very subjective term), and do anything else "deemed" unhealthy by some pin head activist. The amount of control the government will have over your daily lives will be staggering and the hardest hit will be the poor, who are typically the biggest consumers of said unhealthy habits.
 
#129
#129
right now no if you have a job you are doing all you can to keep it. i tried to find some copies of a book that had statistics on how much tax money goes to Walmart employees because their insurance program is outrageous. i saw documentary about a year ago called WalMart:High Price of Everyday Low Prices or something to that affect. there is a book with the same title. yes it is a biased and tries to make Walmart look like satan but it had alot of statistics and research to back up their arguement. but i guess it doesnt matter to you. in your opinion you prolly just think they should get a better job or another job to scrape by. and thats fine just a difference in opinion.
 
#130
#130
motown vol 09 said:
right now no if you have a job you are doing all you can to keep it. i tried to find some copies of a book that had statistics on how much tax money goes to Walmart employees because their insurance program is outrageous. i saw documentary about a year ago called WalMart:High Price of Everyday Low Prices or something to that affect. there is a book with the same title. yes it is a biased and tries to make Walmart look like satan but it had alot of statistics and research to back up their arguement. but i guess it doesnt matter to you. in your opinion you prolly just think they should get a better job or another job to scrape by. and thats fine just a difference in opinion.
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That film, while great in its point, is entirely a wal-mart hit piece. That said, Sam Walton would be rolling over in his grave if he saw what his legacy has become.
 
#132
#132
dcgf05 said:
That film, while great in its point, is entirely a wal-mart hit piece. That said, Sam Walton would be rolling over in his grave if he saw what his legacy has become.
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they did try to just absolutely shredd em. and yes im sure he hates what his family has become.
there was one part that i remember where there is a fund that employees donate money that goes to fellow walmart employees who are struggling around christmas time. the employees donated more than the entire walton family and it wasnt even close.
 
#133
#133
#136
#136
kptvol said:
It doesn't explain the criteria the WHO used to rank these nations, but does state that it stopped the rankings 9 years ago because the task was too complex.
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yeah thats what i was wondering is how they determine the rankings. Wonder if it includes 2 human polls and some computer formulas?
 
#139
#139
kptvol said:
It doesn't explain the criteria the WHO used to rank these nations, but does state that it stopped the rankings 9 years ago because the task was too complex.
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WHO’s assessment system was based on five indicators: overall level of population health; health inequalities (or disparities) within the population; overall level of health system responsiveness (a combination of patient satisfaction and how well the system acts); distribution of responsiveness within the population (how well people of varying economic status find that they are served by the health system); and the distribution of the health system’s financial burden within the population (who pays the costs).
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PR-2000-43/ WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION : ASSESSES THE WORLD'S HEALTH SYSTEMS
 
#140
#140
If those are the standards I'm not sure why they even bother ranking countries like Cuba. You know they aren't getting good information.
 
#142
#142
kptvol said:
If those are the standards I'm not sure why they even bother ranking countries like Cuba. You know they aren't getting good information.
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Using WHO to rank healthcare systems would be like using Communist Party USA to rank world governments.

But WHO's agenda is more ambitious than merely bringing medical care to the world's disadvantaged. Health, in a definition the group adopted over 20 years ago, is "a state of complete physical, mental, and social well-being and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity." That is a totalist vision, and an alarming one. Armed with a bureaucrat's mentality, an arsenal of questionable data and conclusions, and a billion dollars in taxpayer money donated by governments around the world, WHO's goal seems not so much to bring the world "health" as a physical condition as it is to bring the world under the control of the international mavens of "public health," the sociopolitical discipline.
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WHO Cares?: The World Health Organization cares more about its own life than the lives of the poor. - Reason Magazine

Long article but a good one.
 
#143
#143
oklavol said:
The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems
37. United States

Health system attainment and performance in all Member States
72. United States

Total Health Expenditures as Percent of Gross Domestic Product (GDP) 2000-2005 - Country Rankings
2. United States
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Having looked into the WHO ratings before I can tell you that you need to understand the criteria.

The US scores at the top on patient satisfaction and performance based quality of care.

It scores low on equitable access to care (primarily due to the 40 million unemployed).

As a result, our ranking of "quality" is lower than others because "quality" includes measures of "fairness" "equity", etc.

For those that do receive medical care (most people) the US system ranks at the top.
 
#144
#144
#145
#145
#146
#146
TENNFOLD1974 said:
I'm being sincere when saying this....please explain to me why this would be a bad thing,I just can't see the downside to everyone being able to be looked after if he or she gets sick.We all are going to get sick from time to time.
What other solutions are there for caring for the poor if they get sick(and I mean see real doctors....not students in some medical school), your thoughts?
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What government program have you ever seen run properly/successfully/etc?


If the government paid for medical care then people would take advantage of it and go more often (i.e., that cold that you would normally treat with chicken soups and stay home for 24 hours would then turn into a doctor’s visit).

The government capping earnings on doctors equals fewer doctors. People will find easier ways to make their $X per year.

More patients plus fewer doctors equals longer waits, more errors, and poorer service.

It is my understanding where this will truly affect people is in the area of elective surgery and healthcare (i.e., hip replacement, knee operation, etc.). These types of procedures take months to schedule whereas they are pretty immediate now.
 
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#147
#147
volinbham said:
Having looked into the WHO ratings before I can tell you that you need to understand the criteria.

The US scores at the top on patient satisfaction and performance based quality of care.

It scores low on equitable access to care (primarily due to the 40 million unemployed).

As a result, our ranking of "quality" is lower than others because "quality" includes measures of "fairness" "equity", etc.

For those that do receive medical care (most people) the US system ranks at the top.
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Good information and analysis. I'll keep this tucked away for future debates. Thanks for sharing.
 
#148
#148
volinbham said:
Having looked into the WHO ratings before I can tell you that you need to understand the criteria.

The US scores at the top on patient satisfaction and performance based quality of care.

It scores low on equitable access to care (primarily due to the 40 million unemployed).

As a result, our ranking of "quality" is lower than others because "quality" includes measures of "fairness" "equity", etc.

For those that do receive medical care (most people) the US system ranks at the top.
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The number one complaint with the U.S. Healthcare system is the cost, access is second. In terms of GDP, the U.S. pays more then any other country except one.
 
#149
#149
oklavol said:
The number one complaint with the U.S. Healthcare system is the cost, access is second. In terms of GDP, the U.S. pays more then any other country except one.
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and that nets the US with a 37 in the rankings?

what BS

socializing our medical system won't help with any of those three things, if anything, it will make them worse.
 
#150
#150
oklavol said:
The number one complaint with the U.S. Healthcare system is the cost, access is second. In terms of GDP, the U.S. pays more then any other country except one.
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Give healthcare out for free, make it a right. Then your top complaints will be quality and accessibility. Take your pick.
 
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