What is wrong with socialized medicine?

#102
#102
Cartervol said:
Those are all good points. Like i was saying, there is no magic pot of gold, no magic pile of money. We socialize medicine, we pay the bill for all the smokers, lazy people, obese people, all of them and the downright worthless too. How does the government get its money? From the people, so those that think its the government that is taking care of them, not really when we're paying the bill.

The misinformed believe that government is a self sustained entity and they're the ones paying the bill. Well we all know that is just not so. Its that imaginary i'm entitled too something crap. There are those that are just in a bad way. Then there are those that just milk the system for all its worth. I have no respect for the later.
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I see you have nothing better to do today.
 
#104
#104
droski said:
i follow a company that makes a robotic operating system that significantly reduces hospital time and side effects and significantly increases the likelyhood of recovery for multiple surgeries. virtually every major hospital in the united states has them. in all of europe and canada there is something like 20 machines total.
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This gets at a larger, important point. Our current healthcare system represents a "market" for cutting edge medical technology and pharmaceuticals.

In a way, our high healthcare costs subsidize the development and selling of these products to other healthcare systems.

If we adopt a Canadian or British style system, cost containment measures will reduce this "market" and the level of medical innovation will likely drop since the risk/reward balance has changed.
 
#105
#105
and our high pharmaceutical costs are due in part to Canada's price controls on imported drugs from US companies.
 
#106
#106
volinbham said:
This gets at a larger, important point. Our current healthcare system represents a "market" for cutting edge medical technology and pharmaceuticals.

In a way, our high healthcare costs subsidize the development and selling of these products to other healthcare systems.

If we adopt a Canadian or British style system, cost containment measures will reduce this "market" and the level of medical innovation will likely drop since the risk/reward balance has changed.
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there is zero question IMO that socialized healthcare in the US would reduce innovation and the quality of US healthcare by a wide margin.
 
#108
#108
MG1968 said:
and our high pharmaceutical costs are due in part to Canada's price controls on imported drugs from US companies.
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Damn! So we're paying their bills too. Jeez this is getting contagious. Soon we'll realize we're supporting half the world, oh wait:unsure: Our market tanks, the world market tanks, hmmm, putting two and two together here:p
 
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#109
#109
TENNFOLD1974 said:
If you didn't have anything you'd have a different perspective of this "garbage"
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Of whom do you speak? You speak as if you are one of the have nots. When i know for a fact you have a roof over your head, food in your mouth and cigarettes cancering up your lungs. Sounds like you have quiet a bit compared to some. Don't get me started sir, you're a able bodied person that could do something about his current situation. The fact you choice not too is no fault of mine and taxpayers shouldn't be left paying the bill. The fact is steve-o you're part of the problem with this country not the solution. Facts a fact.
 
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#110
#110
volinbham said:
This gets at a larger, important point. Our current healthcare system represents a "market" for cutting edge medical technology and pharmaceuticals.

In a way, our high healthcare costs subsidize the development and selling of these products to other healthcare systems.

If we adopt a Canadian or British style system, cost containment measures will reduce this "market" and the level of medical innovation will likely drop since the risk/reward balance has changed.
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My belief is that the level of medical innovation will drop significantly because even if you have the best product, that will not necessarily mean that the government will contract with you to use the new product. The government will weigh the expenses and choose the less expensive alternative (not to mention which company is in bed with the politicians). Thus, much of the company's R&D investment will be wasted.
 
#111
#111
vols4sure said:
My belief is that the level of medical innovation will drop significantly because even if you have the best product, that will not necessarily mean that the government will contract with you to use the new product. The government will weigh the expenses and choose the less expensive alternative (not to mention which company is in bed with the politicians). Thus, much of the company's R&D investment will be wasted.
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exactly right. just look at obama's push for generic drugs
 
#114
#114
i dont wanna see socialized health care because of the reasons above but there are some things that need to be looked at. what about ppl who work but that job doesnt pay enough to get health insurance.... aka WALMART. Talk about bankrupting America. that place is hittin us from every direction
 
#115
#115
motown vol 09 said:
i dont wanna see socialized health care because of the reasons above but there are some things that need to be looked at. what about ppl who work but that job doesnt pay enough to get health insurance.... aka WALMART. Talk about bankrupting America. that place is hittin us from every direction
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try getting a second job, or cutting out "wants" like cable TV, fast food, and cigarettes.

Walmart is hardly responsible, in any way, for the bankrupting of America.
 
#116
#116
MG1968 said:
try getting a second job, or cutting out "wants" like cable TV, fast food, and cigarettes.

Walmart is hardly responsible, in any way, for the bankrupting of America.
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i didnt say they were the source but if u look at their insurance program and how they do business is highway robbery
 
#117
#117
I think some tort reform and not having doctors spending half the year working to pay off their insurance premiums could help bring costs down.

I could be mistaken but I think it was Nevada where a healthy chunk of the OB/GYN docs retired, changed specialties or moved elsewhere. The cost of liability simply made doing business impractical.
 
#119
#119
hndog609 said:
I think some tort reform and not having doctors spending half the year working to pay off their insurance premiums could help bring costs down.

I could be mistaken but I think it was Nevada where a healthy chunk of the OB/GYN docs retired, changed specialties or moved elsewhere. The cost of liability simply made doing business impractical.
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Doctors are moving out of Florida as well.
 
#120
#120
Cartervol said:
Of whom do you speak? You speak as if you are one of the have nots. When i know for a fact you have a roof over your head, food in your mouth and cigarettes cancering up your lungs. Sounds like you have quiet a bit compared to some. Don't get me started sir, you're a able bodied person that could do something about his current situation. The fact you choice not too is no fault of mine and taxpayers shouldn't be left paying the bill. The fact is steve-o you're part of the problem with this country not the solution. Facts a fact.
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For one I've quit smoking..number two,you absolutely have no understanding of my situation...come live in my shoes for a day and I PROMISE you you would not hitting me with your haymakers of arrogance.
 
#121
#121
TENNFOLD1974 said:
For one I've quit smoking..number two,you absolutely have no understanding of my situation...come live in my shoes for a day and I PROMISE you you would not hitting me with your haymakers of arrogance.
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I think i do. You stay up all night long, play poker all day long, then get on volnation and whine the rest of the time. Happy to hear you've quit cigarettes. Apparently your situation doesn't bother you or you'd do more than what i posted above all day.
 
#122
#122
Cartervol said:
I think i do. You stay up all night long, play poker all day long, then get on volnation and whine the rest of the time. Happy to hear you've quit cigarettes. Apparently your situation doesn't bother you or you'd do more than what i posted above all day.
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For one this is what I'm talking about right here.....you blab on this board about my life, sht that you should pm me about and aint nobodies business..instead you try to humilate on here that's messed up man....i hope your proud of yourself a**hole...your suppose to be my family.
 
#123
#123
TENNFOLD1974 said:
For one this is what I'm talking about right here.....you blab on this board about my life, sht that you should pm me about and aint nobodies business..instead you try to humilate on here that's messed up man....i hope your proud of yourself a**hole...your suppose to be my family.
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Has nothing to do with this.
 
#124
#124
volinbham said:
Our current healthcare system represents a "market" for cutting edge medical technology and pharmaceuticals.
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So you mean you don't want to just ban them all together?

Thousands of patients with terminal cancer were dealt a blow last night after a decision was made to deny them life prolonging drugs.

The Government's rationing body said two drugs for advanced breast cancer and a rare form of stomach cancer were too expensive for the NHS.
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So now, even if I have the means to pay for something, I still don't have the option to get access to it with nationalized healthcare? Sign me up!

Life prolonging cancer drugs to be banned because they cost too much | Mail Online
 
#125
#125
droski said:
there is zero question IMO that socialized healthcare in the US would reduce innovation and the quality of US healthcare by a wide margin.
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Additionally, you go to Canada and there's a shortage of highly qualified docs to do certain surgeries. There's a few rare things here in the US that only a handful of guys can do, but up North it's like that with all kinds of procedures.
 
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