What's best for the future of UT football: Dooley teams win or... (merged)

#26
#26
This is like what happened in the last year of the CPF regime. There were a few threads saying "If you root against Tennessee, CPF gets out of here quicker"

I'm sorry, but like pj said, if it's a choice that includes the Vols losing, I just ain't for it.
 
#28
#28
SWAVolFan said:
cause u have no sense of reality!!! My opinion of course! Now I'm just waiting to hear people tell me to get off of here cause it's my first post.
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the reality is I want UT football to be successful no matter who is the HC. The reality is that anyone hoping the man loses (and in turn UT loses) so he gets fired is not cheering for the same team I am.
 
#30
#30
I admit that I didn't think Dooley was a good hire but I am willing to give him a chance and support him.
 
#31
#31
nickknx865 said:
This is like what happened in the last year of the CPF regime. There were a few threads saying "If you root against Tennessee, CPF gets out of here quicker"

I'm sorry, but like pj said, if it's a choice that includes the Vols losing, I just ain't for it.
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It's not about anyone being for the Vols losing. I said that in the initial post. I hope he wins every game he coaches. I just don't see how anyone could possibly expect anything close to that outcome.

The query is about what gets UT back to championship football is the most expedient manner possible.
 
#32
#32
putting a ceiling on the number of wins he can achieve is ridiculous.. after all we arent UGA we can get more than 10.
 
#36
#36
utvolpj said:
the reality is I want UT football to be successful no matter who is the HC. The reality is that anyone hoping the man loses (and in turn UT loses) so he gets fired is not cheering for the same team I am.
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Again, I never said I wanted him to lose.

It's a hypothetical question.
 
#37
#37
utmba93 said:
It's not about anyone being for the Vols losing. I said that in the initial post. I hope he wins every game he coaches. I just don't see how anyone could possibly expect anything close to that outcome.

The query is about what gets UT back to championship football is the most expedient manner possible.
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IMO, this is a boom or bust hire. There really isn't a whole lot of middle ground here. Obviously, Dooley wasn't anyone's first, second, third, or even fourth choice. But I've got to support him 100% though.

As for your original question, I really couldn't tell you one way or the other at this point. On one hand, he went 17-20 at a WAC school. On the other hand, he was the recruiting coordinator at LSU when the won the NC back in 2003. I think he certainly has the potential to be a championship coach. But I'm not sure if he is the guy to get UT back to the level that we all would like and want.
 
#38
#38
I had to read the title of this thread 3 times, just to make sure I was seeing it correctly!

How can losses, no matter who the coach, be what's best for our program?? I swear you deserve a virtual smack on the back of the head for that question!
 
#39
#39
triadvolfan said:
Okay, I'll play.

We don't know all the details of the coaching search but it seems obvious that CDD was not the first candidate. So if we had to make a 'reach' hire to get him, what makes you think that if he's gone in 2 years after 2 losing seasons that we'll suddenly have a top notch coach knocking down the door to be coach at UT. UT took a gamble on CLK and now they've taken a gamble on CDD.

If in 2 years CDD is fired for running UT into the ground they'll have to take an even bigger chance on another coach (because the job will be less attractive then it is now) and we'll all bemoan the fact that whoever they get can't compete for titles before he even coaches a game and we hope he sucks for 2 years and is fired. Rinse and repeat.

UT winning is better than UT losing. I'd rather him average 8 or 9 wins a year for 5 to 10 years then run the program further into the ground.

I'm not totally sold on Dooley but I also think it's possible he's an upgrade over Kiffin and I respect the fact that rather than following Saban to UA he decided to become a head coach at a smaller school. We'll see how it goes but championships aren't out of the question, especially if the Wilcox hire pans out.
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That UT would have to go ahead and pay for a proven coach if Dooley loses is ad certain as why we should have paid for a proven coach when Kiffin left. It's just a delay in understanding that reality.

This is very much like Bama fans failing to pay what it takes to having a winning program. They had to lose enough games before they were willing to pay Saban. After this hiring decision, I suspect the same is true for UT.

But, of course, I hope he wins. I also hope I win the lottery, but I haven't even bought a ticket.
 
#40
#40
utmba93 said:
To say that there is some doubt about whether CDD can ever win a championship at UT is a gross understatement.

There's also doubt that he can ever win the SEC East.

Instead, many here and in other UT circles, feel the best he can do is win may 10 games in his third year at UT, but never any more than that. In the meantime, many concede that he will help recruiting, but that he can not recruit as well as CLK and company. So, even his recruiting upside is limited versus the trajectory we were on.

Before anyone starts claiming that I don't want to Vols to win, let me clarify in saying that we all want the Vols to win.

Yet, is winning and restoring 'mediocrity' at UT over the next 6 or 7 years better for the Vols program, or would simply seeing Dooley repeat his LA Tech record at UT over the next two years get a proven coach on the Hill faster?
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Realistically, we will probably be better off by losing and getting rid of him faster. But that's not going to keep me from rooting for him and I hope I'm wrong.
 
#41
#41
utmba93 said:
To say that there is some doubt about whether CDD can ever win a championship at UT is a gross understatement.

There's also doubt that he can ever win the SEC East.

Instead, many here and in other UT circles, feel the best he can do is win may 10 games in his third year at UT, but never any more than that. In the meantime, many concede that he will help recruiting, but that he can not recruit as well as CLK and company. So, even his recruiting upside is limited versus the trajectory we were on.

Before anyone starts claiming that I don't want to Vols to win, let me clarify in saying that we all want the Vols to win.

Yet, is winning and restoring 'mediocrity' at UT over the next 6 or 7 years better for the Vols program, or would simply seeing Dooley repeat his LA Tech record at UT over the next two years get a proven coach on the Hill faster?
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He doesn't have to restore mediocrity at UT. We have been there for several years thanks to Phil Fulmer...

mediocrity: ordinariness as a consequence of being average and not outstanding.

Give Coach Dooley a chance to build the program. Fulmer left Tennessee in terrible shape.
Kiffin did bring back some excitement and recruited some good players to the program .
Coach Dooley did an outstanding job signing his first class. It will take a couple more good classes to restore the talent needed to win a championship.
 
#42
#42
The question isn't that ridiculous. If Dooley isn't a national championship-caliber coach, which he probably isn't, we should want one to get here as fast as possible...
 
#43
#43
nickknx865 said:
IMO, this is a boom or bust hire. There really isn't a whole lot of middle ground here. Obviously, Dooley wasn't anyone's first, second, third, or even fourth choice. But I've got to support him 100% though.

As for your original question, I really couldn't tell you one way or the other at this point. On one hand, he went 17-20 at a WAC school. On the other hand, he was the recruiting coordinator at LSU when the won the NC back in 2003. I think he certainly has the potential to be a championship coach. But I'm not sure if he is the guy to get UT back to the level that we all would like and want.
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The hire is a boom for the AD if it works and will help him get a better salary or job. But it was a risk that UT should not have taken.

Also, I credit Saban with the NC success at LSU and recruiting well there is not all that challenging. It was Saban's defense that won the NC at LSU, just as it was Bama.
 
#44
#44
My opinion of the question you actually asked is this, if the best Dooley can do is just be mediocre, (6-6, 7-5 seasons) then ultimately we would get back to where we want to be faster if he were to lose every game for the next 2 or 3 years, was fired, and then brought in someone who could get the job done. God knows how long Hamilton would deem .500ish seasons as acceptable, the Fulmer contract in '07 indicates it would be a while. But for all of us, we really want to see him succeed in a big way. Right now I am skeptical, but eagerly await the future.
 
#45
#45
VKAman said:
The question isn't that ridiculous. If Dooley isn't a national championship-caliber coach, which he probably isn't, we should want one to get here as fast as possible...
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and you came up with that conclusion based on what?
 
#46
#46
bleedorange0037 said:
My opinion of the question you actually asked is this, if the best Dooley can do is just be mediocre, (6-6, 7-5 seasons) then ultimately we would get back to where we want to be faster if he were to lose every game for the next 2 or 3 years, was fired, and then brought in someone who could get the job done. God knows how long Hamilton would deem .500ish seasons as acceptable, the Fulmer contract in '07 indicates it would be a while. But for all of us, we really want to see him succeed in a big way. Right now I am skeptical, but eagerly await the future.
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This is what scares me...

I'm afraid Dooley won't be good enough to win a NC but won't be bad enough to get fired either...
 
#49
#49
Dudleys87 said:
and you came up with that conclusion based on what?
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Of all the candidates to be the next Saban or Meyer, would you predict it to be someone that went 17-20 in the WAC? And if so, try answering the same question as a truly objective observer...
 
#50
#50
There are two issues here, IMO.

First, you need to win in order to maintain your image as a top notch program that has just hit a few bumps in the road. A string of mediocre seasons, or even two or three losing ones in conference play, and you will start hearing your name in the same breath as FSU. You don't want that, because it likely means more controversy and unsettled status.

Second, if you are right and Dooley does not have what it takes and never will, then he will be leaving anyway. Might it take another year or two if he has a string of 8-4 seasons versus 5-7? Maybe, but I think the long term negative effect on recruiting of 5-7 for a couple of years outweighs being frustrated with mediocre bowls for an extra year or two.
 
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