What's best for the future of UT football: Dooley teams win or... (merged)

#51
#51
Vols378 said:
He doesn't have to restore mediocrity at UT. We have been there for several years thanks to Phil Fulmer...

mediocrity: ordinariness as a consequence of being average and not outstanding.

Give Coach Dooley a chance to build the program. Fulmer left Tennessee in terrible shape.
Kiffin did bring back some excitement and recruited some good players to the program .
Coach Dooley did an outstanding job signing his first class. It will take a couple more good classes to restore the talent needed to win a championship.
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The 8 early enrollees had a lot to do with the recruiting success along with Chaney and Thompson. I don't know, for example, if there would have been any difference in this year recruiting class had, say Kippy Brown, been hired and he retained the same staff.

Additionally, it seems Kippy would have taken a shorter contract for a chance to prove himself and would have been equally as likely to success as is Dooley, but we'd have a lot better option out than the one we have no (e.g. long contract versus short).
 
#52
#52
VKAman said:
This is what scares me...

I'm afraid Dooley won't be good enough to win a NC but won't be bad enough to get fired either...
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I gotta admit, I've thought about this scenario. Can you imagine a decade of 7-5, 8-4, 9-3 seasons and Outback Bowl/Peach Bowl berths?
 
#53
#53
Since everyone seems that UT shouln't have hired Dooley being that we got turned down several times before he said yes. Who do you possibly think we would have got that would have been a better fit?
 
#54
#54
I don't understand how you know that there is no chance Dooley can recruit as good as Kiffin?

If we come out and go 8-4 this year and 10-2 the next, I have a feeling we will be landing top 5 classes pretty regularly.

I will be the first to tell you that it was hard to jump off the Kiffin ship and onto another staff, we had all been programed that their way was the only way that Tennnessee could get back to the top. But it isn't, we can do it with old fashioned coaching and improvement in Win's and Losses against the top dogs in the SEC.

I think we are not in as dire of a situation as some would think, Dooley has a chance to get us back!
 
#55
#55
VKAman said:
This is what scares me...

I'm afraid Dooley won't be good enough to win a NC but won't be bad enough to get fired either...
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I'm not too worried about winning a NC right now. We've been to the mountaintop once in my life, and anything NC's from here on would just be icing on the cake. I want Tennessee to year in and year out be competing for an SEC title, and win it every few years. If that happens, the rest will likely take care of itself.
 
#56
#56
lawgator1 said:
There are two issues here, IMO.

First, you need to win in order to maintain your image as a top notch program that has just hit a few bumps in the road. A string of mediocre seasons, or even two or three losing ones in conference play, and you will start hearing your name in the same breath as FSU. You don't want that, because it likely means more controversy and unsettled status.

Second, if you are right and Dooley does not have what it takes and never will, then he will be leaving anyway. Might it take another year or two if he has a string of 8-4 seasons versus 5-7? Maybe, but I think the long term negative effect on recruiting of 5-7 for a couple of years outweighs being frustrated with mediocre bowls for an extra year or two.
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If it were only a year or two, that might not be so bad. My concern is that it is more like five or six more years. He does have a six year contract.

I've said several times, I do think he'd be a great AD. He has those skills.
 
#57
#57
VKAman said:
Of all the candidates to be the next Saban or Meyer, would you predict it to be someone that went 17-20 in the WAC? And if so, try answering the same question as a truly objective observer...
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All im saying is give the man a chance before you label him as a failure..
 
#59
#59
utmba93 said:
That UT would have to go ahead and pay for a proven coach if Dooley loses is ad certain as why we should have paid for a proven coach when Kiffin left. It's just a delay in understanding that reality.

This is very much like Bama fans failing to pay what it takes to having a winning program. They had to lose enough games before they were willing to pay Saban. After this hiring decision, I suspect the same is true for UT.
But, of course, I hope he wins. I also hope I win the lottery, but I haven't even bought a ticket.
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You have to remember that Bama was on probation prior to Saban's arrival and Shula, Francione, Price were the only ones to take the challenge. Saban was winning a NC at LSU so he was not in the picture. You can't say that Bama didn't throw a lot of money around to get a Saban-like coach b/c you weren't there.

Also, we only have media rumors to tell us to whom and how much $$$ was being offered to UT candidates.

The UT job is not a plug and play program. You have to recruit nationally and against SEC rivals in their backyard. You have to understand the tradition and the limitations. Big name coaches who are entrenched in their current jobs are not going to leave for similar $$$. CDD is perfect in my opinion b/c he knows the SEC landscape, is highly motivated and wants to prove himself. I said it before, you are only renting a Saban-like coach but are buying a coach like DD for the long haul.
 
#62
#62
jrwvol said:
You have to remember that Bama was on probation prior to Saban's arrival and Shula, Francione, Price were the only ones to take the challenge. Saban was winning a NC at LSU so he was not in the picture. You can't say that Bama didn't throw a lot of money around to get a Saban-like coach b/c you weren't there.

Also, we only have media rumors to tell us to whom and how much $$$ was being offered to UT candidates.

The UT job is not a plug and play program. You have to recruit nationally and against SEC rivals in their backyard. You have to understand the tradition and the limitations. Big name coaches who are entrenched in their current jobs are not going to leave for similar $$$. CDD is perfect in my opinion b/c he knows the SEC landscape, is highly motivated and wants to prove himself. I said it before, you are only renting a Saban-like coach but are buying a coach like DD for the long haul.
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That why we have to pay them more... not less... and we have to give them the freedom to staff, not constrain it.
 
#64
#64
VKAman said:
Realistically, we will probably be better off by losing and getting rid of him faster. But that's not going to keep me from rooting for him and I hope I'm wrong.
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and this was the premise of the question. Are we better off getting it over with quickly or rolling through several years of mediocrity.

The unfortunate part for UTMBA is the preclusion of winning big as an option.

I think it's an interesting question, but the Vol crowd isn't ready to consider that this might not be a home run hire at this point. To some degree, they're right. Admitting defeat at this point is taking a hopeless position, and what's the fun in that, regardless of reality?
 
#65
#65
What does this even mean? Are you willing to write Coach Dooley off before he has coached a single game for Tennessee?

"To say that there is some doubt about whether CDD can ever win a championship at UT is a gross understatement." . . . are you kidding me?

"There's also doubt that he can ever win the SEC East." . . . What basis is there for this statement?

I don't like to make fun of people posting threads or to be disrespectful, but this one really leaves me speechless. Some people just don't seem happy unless they are crying that the "sky is falling." Coach Dooley seems to be a stand-up guy, he seems to be a decent recruiter, and just about everyone in the coaching business (including Nick Saban) has a lot of respect for him. Will he win championships? I don't know, but I hope so. Let's see the first season play out before we start talking about the supposed "doubtful" ability of Coach Dooley to win at UT.
 
#68
#68
nickknx865 said:
Lol, yea, but at least we made 3 SECCG's.
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I don't think we'll see that in the Dooley era, but I was certain it would happen under CLK.

And, yes, I was for Fulmer almost as long as Hamilton was. Fulmer is a better and more proven coach than is Dooley. I didn't want to go back to CPF and I did think it was time for us to start a new era, but there are certainly worse coaches than CPF.
 
#69
#69
Chad F said:
What does this even mean? Are you willing to write Coach Dooley off before he has coached a single game for Tennessee?

"To say that there is some doubt about whether CDD can ever win a championship at UT is a gross understatement." . . . are you kidding me?

"There's also doubt that he can ever win the SEC East." . . . What basis is there for this statement?

I don't like to make fun of people posting threads or to be disrespectful, but this one really leaves me speechless. Some people just don't seem happy unless they are crying that the "sky is falling." Coach Dooley seems to be a stand-up guy, he seems to be a decent recruiter, and just about everyone in the coaching business (including Nick Saban) has a lot of respect for him. Will he win championships? I don't know, but I hope so. Let's see the first season play out before we start talking about the supposed "doubtful" ability of Coach Dooley to win at UT.
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I get the point that we don't know, but the empirical evidence available to date suggests that a long leash is stupid in this case.
 
#70
#70
BigPapaVol said:
and this was the premise of the question. Are we better off getting it over with quickly or rolling through several years of mediocrity.

The unfortunate part for UTMBA is the preclusion of winning big as an option.

I think it's an interesting question, but the Vol crowd isn't ready to consider that this might not be a home run hire at this point. To some degree, they're right. Admitting defeat at this point is taking a hopeless position, and what's the fun in that, regardless of reality?
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Absolutely true. But I can also tell you from personal (Fulmer) experience that starting off each season with high hopes and blind homerism, only to have that crushed by someone who can't coach, is probably just as frustrating.
 
#72
#72
BigPapaVol said:
and this was the premise of the question. Are we better off getting it over with quickly or rolling through several years of mediocrity.

The unfortunate part for UTMBA is the preclusion of winning big as an option.

I think it's an interesting question, but the Vol crowd isn't ready to consider that this might not be a home run hire at this point. To some degree, they're right. Admitting defeat at this point is taking a hopeless position, and what's the fun in that, regardless of reality?
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That's pretty much the realization that i've come to. We were left in a horrible position when Kiffin left, and he was the only person who came forward to accept the challenge. Do I personally think he is the savior of Tennessee football? No. There's a lot of things on his resume that don't point to success. But my worrying about his past isn't really going to change what he does here, so I'm just going to sit back and hope for the best.
 
#73
#73
VKAman said:
Absolutely true. But I can also tell you from personal (Fulmer) experience that starting off each season with high hopes and blind homerism, only to have that crushed by someone who can't coach, is probably just as frustrating.
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losing is no fun, but it's part of insanity driven fandom. Hope is at the very core of fandom. Homerism tends to follow.

I have hope and our coach did save some recruits and picked up a couple of absolute head scratchers. The prevailing point here is that we should see what we have on the field before declaring this an interim hire. I tend to agree with that.
 
#74
#74
I can see the thought process that's taking place here, but its tough to say which side of the fence to be on.
 
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