Where do we stand talent-wise in 2013?

#51
#51
99gator said:
Your starters aren't as good as any.

What is this solid d-line people speak of? When did this happen?

Dooley was a big problem. He wasn't the only problem.
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I'll take our D-Line this year Over Florida's! Dooley was a huge huge problem, and he was so rude many highschool coaches couldn't stand him,thus hurting our recruiting!
 
#57
#57
MyBloodRunnethOrange said:
So you think there are only 4 schools in the league with a less talented roster than us? Totally disagree. UK, Vandy, Mizzou, Ole Miss, MSU, and Arky all have less talented rosters than we do.
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You obviously missed Ole Miss' recruiting class this year. We're in the bottom tier. It sucks but it's the truth. Just remember Rome wasn't built in a day and neither will this program. That isn't to say Butch isn't the man for the job but for people who think we're going to beat Oregon, Florida or Bama on the road needs to put down the kool-aid. Our depth is a clear issue and without any proven playmakers we could be in for a long year.
 
#58
#58
terrypedigo said:
NO NO NO we dont have the talent as the Ducks.:no:Now that dont mean we cant give them a run for the money, with good coaching and a few turnovers who knows.
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Maybe the Ducks will jump out to a lead on us ... and then a lightning storm will hit, pausing the game ... and then significant adjustments will be made ... :unsure::question::loco:
 
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#59
#59
ZWVol11 said:
You obviously missed Ole Miss' recruiting class this year. We're in the bottom tier. It sucks but it's the truth. Just remember Rome wasn't built in a day and neither will this program. That isn't to say Butch isn't the man for the job but for people who think we're going to beat Oregon, Florida or Bama on the road needs to put down the kool-aid. Our depth is a clear issue and without any proven playmakers we could be in for a long year.
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One recruiting class doesn't all of a sudden change the entire dynamic of the team to having a bunch of talent. It means that they have 1/4 good high school talent with no experience. Think back to our 09 class and where we stand now.
 
#60
#60
I think the roster is in better shape then many on here think but I understand their concern. My optimism is rooted in two things:

1) This is the first time UT has had a significant # of seniors on the roster in the last 5 years. Seniors tend to finish strong and be dedicated since they know it's their last year on campus. With a new coach and some new dedication I can very easily see a handful of them cap off underachieving careers with monster senior year.

2) It's amazing how much faster defensive players look when they're in position.

I think 7 wins is very achievable for this team if Butch is as good a coach as we're hoping. If UT beats every team on their schedule that had a losing record last year that's 6 wins right there.
 
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#61
#61
orangebloodgmc said:
Maybe the Ducks will jump out to a lead on us ... and then a lightning storm will hit, pausing the game ... and then significant adjustments will be made ... :unsure::question::loco:
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That damn storm. Perhaps we wouldn't have won the game. But IMO it was glaringly obvious that it impacted the game in a negative way for UT.
 
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#62
#62
LWSVOL said:
and OL also. why the staff is focusing a lot on JC for those groups.. may not find what they need and have to take high school but they definitely want immediate help for those 3 groups in 2014
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I really am not worried at all about the 2-deep on the OL. Sure the 1's are much more experienced, but that's because they got thrown into the fire much earlier than usual when they were freshmen, they paid their dues, and now they are solid seniors who have been commanding the p.t.

That doesn't mean the 2's suck, just that they have been brought along slowly with red-shirts, etc. Yes, NEXT YEAR we will lose multiple seniors, but all the current 2's lack is experience and after our first 2 games, they will be farther along with that. Sure, next year we will be shakier in this department, but the question was where do we stand now, "talent-wise in 2013."
 
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#63
#63
Last year we had three NFL quality receivers, an NFL quality tight end and a QB with an NFL arm attached to a Pee Wee league head. All of this behind a very good offensive line gave us a puncher's chance against anyone and lead to some close games.

This year we are completely inexperienced and unproven at all of those positions and we have less talent to boot. The secondary was abysmally slow last year but any speed we have added, and it isn't a lot, will be negated by inexperience. Think about all of the talented guys we have had back there in the past who were abused their freshman year and then realize that the guys we are adding aren't as good as those guys were.

We lost the only defensive lineman we had who ever showed up in the other team's backfield in Sentimore and our linebackers are slow of foot. Sentimore was by far the best and most productive defensive lineman we had last year and the NFL was not interested in him.

Against that we get Randolph back. He looked night and day better than the other players on defense during the spring game but he is probably only an average SEC safety. That should tell you where we are talent wise.

In addition, the class Dooley pulled in last year was a step back and is not the sort that will help us gain on anyone.

All in all a realistic goal for this year would be to finish ahead of some of the also-rans who have beaten us in recent years. I am thinking in particular of Missouri and Vanderbilt. Those are the key games for us. We will likely have three wins going into the home stretch against KY, Auburn, MO and Vandy. That stretch will determine the season. We pretty much have to sweep them.

We might luck out and beat someone like GA but that really shouldn't happen based on the talent disparity alone. Coaching can only win you about a game in the SEC (though poor coaching can lose a bunch) because there are no real slouches when it comes to SEC coaching staffs. There just isn't a lot of advantage to be gained in that area so you have to hope for some breaks to come your way or for the other team to be in turmoil for some reason.

It really all comes down to recruiting and that is going to take a few years to pan out. I think Butch can evaluate talent and he has a good start on this year's class. We just have to keep the momentum going in the face of what are likely to be some ugly losses as the season progresses.

We are pretty much what our record indicates we are... lower echelon SEC. We just need to position ourselves to move up within that cohort this year so we can point to progress being made and continue to recruit well. That is a tall task and we aren't doing Butch or the program any favors by pretending otherwise. 6-6 with a bowl would be a good season and 7-5 would be a great one.
 
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#64
#64
ZWVol11 said:
You obviously missed Ole Miss' recruiting class this year. We're in the bottom tier. It sucks but it's the truth. Just remember Rome wasn't built in a day and neither will this program. That isn't to say Butch isn't the man for the job but for people who think we're going to beat Oregon, Florida or Bama on the road needs to put down the kool-aid. Our depth is a clear issue and without any proven playmakers we could be in for a long year.
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One recruiting class doesn't place their overall roster ahead of ours. We are mid pack but certainly not bottom third.
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#65
#65
tennesseety said:
This comment is not intended to imply that we have the talent that is needed to compete, but let's not forget that we were essentially one play away from beating South Carolina and Georgia last year. A different coaching staff and I think we have two more wins last year. While I don't expect us to have a very good upcoming season, I expect these coaches to get us those couple of extra wins this season. . .

. . .because Butch gets it.
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We were way more talented last year. We have nothing close to Bray, Patterson, Hunter and Rivera. The only decent team we match up with in my opinion is USCe from a talent perspective. I think Jones is infinitely better than Dooley and is proving to be a helluva recruiter but it will be a couple of years before the players match up with the top of the conference. This last class set us back.
 
#67
#67
Voluble2 said:
Last year we had three NFL quality receivers, an NFL quality tight end and a QB with an NFL arm attached to a Pee Wee league head. All of this behind a very good offensive line gave us a puncher's chance against anyone and lead to some close games.

This year we are completely inexperienced and unproven at all of those positions and we have less talent to boot. The secondary was abysmally slow last year but any speed we have added, and it isn't a lot, will be negated by inexperience. Think about all of the talented guys we have had back there in the past who were abused their freshman year and then realize that the guys we are adding aren't as good as those guys were.

We lost the only defensive lineman we had who ever showed up in the other team's backfield in Sentimore and our linebackers are slow of foot. Sentimore was by far the best and most productive defensive lineman we had last year and the NFL was not interested in him.

Against that we get Randolph back. He looked night and day better than the other players on defense during the spring game but he is probably only an average SEC safety. That should tell you where we are talent wise.

In addition, the class Dooley pulled in last year was a step back and is not the sort that will help us gain on anyone.

All in all a realistic goal for this year would be to finish ahead of some of the also-rans who have beaten us in recent years. I am thinking in particular of Missouri and Vanderbilt. Those are the key games for us. We will likely have three wins going into the home stretch against KY, Auburn, MO and Vandy. That stretch will determine the season. We pretty much have to sweep them.

We might luck out and beat someone like GA but that really shouldn't happen based on the talent disparity alone. Coaching can only win you about a game in the SEC (though poor coaching can lose a bunch) because there are no real slouches when it comes to SEC coaching staffs. There just isn't a lot of advantage to be gained in that area so you have to hope for some breaks to come your way or for the other team to be in turmoil for some reason.

It really all comes down to recruiting and that is going to take a few years to pan out. I think Butch can evaluate talent and he has a good start on this year's class. We just have to keep the momentum going in the face of what are likely to be some ugly losses as the season progresses.

We are pretty much what our record indicates we are... lower echelon SEC. We just need to position ourselves to move up within that cohort this year so we can point to progress being made and continue to recruit well. That is a tall task and we aren't doing Butch or the program any favors by pretending otherwise. 6-6 with a bowl would be a good season and 7-5 would be a great one.
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excellent summary of the Tennessee program and where it is after 5 woeful years..
 
#69
#69
I don't think we really know what we have in terms of talent. If I had to guess, I would say the talent level is average for the SEC. The issue is that the talent we have hasn't played up to it's full potential yet due to mediocre coaching. I'm looking for this to change.
 
#70
#70
This thread has taken a depressing turn.

TN is a top 10 program all time in wins, bowls, players drafted and all other rankings all time that matter. TN has the second most SEC titles of any team. Those kind of programs come back quickly when they find the right coach. The right coach will win a few they aren't predicted too which will show recruits that the program is on the rise. Recruiting will thus skyrocket and away the program goes back to the top teir.

Look at alabama in 2006 with only 3 wins, then Saban comes in and 2008-2012 speaks for itself. Now im not saying Butch is saban, but TN has the same special history of winning that bama has, and if it gets the right coach things will turn around quickly.

All butch needs is one big upset this season to turn the corner.
 
#71
#71
Someone posted recruiting ranking a couple weeks ago for the last four years and averaged them.

We have just as much Talent as A&M, SC and Oregon. According to rivals.
 
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#72
#72
Vol4life25 said:
Someone posted recruiting ranking a couple weeks ago for the last four years and averaged them.

We have just as much Talent as A&M, SC and Oregon. According to rivals.
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Tennessee has more talent, in the SEC, than SCAR, Missouri, Kentucky, Vanderbilt, Mississippi State, aTm, and Ole Miss (not in that order).

In the SEC east, adjusted for attrition and not including the 2013 class, Tennessee is the third most talented team behind 1) UGA, and 2) UF.

There is a difference between talent and experience. Our experience, contrary to what most people who watched last year's team would like to think, is the defense and the offensive line. This years defense will look totally different. Last year's defense wasn't just simply a problem with players lacking talent. But, that is the sort of evaluation that Athlon, Lundy's and others will give you.

The other strength is the offensive line. Someone earlier made the comment that the 2's are extremely talented. That is correct. The 1's are certainly more experienced, but with proper rotation this year, we could have a reasonably experienced and very talented line next year, even with those who leave to go pro or graduate.

The glaring weakness is in the experience of the WRs, TEs and QBs. The group replacing those guys of Hunter, Bray and Patterson don't have anywhere near the experience obviously. There are two reasons to be hopeful, 1) Jones isn't going to try to pull a Sunseri on the offense and bullheadedly attempt to make something work that can't. In fact, I would suspect the exact opposite. He is going to run short high percentage pass plays with a stout running game. It won't be as powerful as last year's offense, true. But, last year's offense was deceiving insofar as how badly the talent was mismanaged and the game plan ill conceived. 2) We have experienced RBs to run behind a very experienced and talented line. People tend to downplay Lane/Neal but their ability, coupled with the O-Line, will be able to take the pressure off of the youth of the other offensive weapons.

I strongly believe that a 7-5 season is the most reasonable expectation for this year. Don't make the mistake of confusing talent/experience with how coaching can impact a game. Dooley and staff are one of the handful of coaches who can negatively impact talent to such a degree. On the flip side of that same coin are coaches who can positively impact talent. Those are names like Spurrier, Petrino, (chip)Kelly and yes Butch Jones.
 
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#73
#73
LWSVOL said:
excellent summary of the Tennessee program and where it is after 5 woeful years..
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LWS, it's glaringly obvious now, and I know you've been on the record to say it would take a decade, but I don't think you've come right out and said it was a mistake to fire Fulmer, especially letting Hambone handle it.

It is clear it was a big mistake, but was that because Hambone was in charge? I know my thoughts on the subject, but I respect your opinion.
 
#74
#74
Eddie Vol Halen said:
LWS, it's glaringly obvious now, and I know you've been on the record to say it would take a decade, but I don't think you've come right out and said it was a mistake to fire Fulmer, especially letting Hambone handle it.

It is clear it was a big mistake, but was that because Hambone was in charge? I know my thoughts on the subject, but I respect your opinion.
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Fulmer's strength was recruiting and then not hindering that talent by his coaching.

Spurrier was the first coach to show the holes in Fulmer's ability, followed by guys like Saban/Miles/Meyer.

The downfall of Fulmer was that those aforementioned coaches figured out how to keep good talent in-state, and how to coach them. Fulmer then could no longer rely on simple smash mouth football, or better talent. So the perception is that he changed, or got lazy. He didn't, the SEC got better and he didn't change.
 
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#75
#75
Everyone needs to go into this season with the hopes that we make a bowl and then be pleasantly surprised should we see more success. Otherwise, you may be in for a huge letdown. I think the program is headed in the right direction but we have a ways to go. This year will be better than last in a lot of ways but I highly doubt you are going to see a "signature" win for Butch this year. It's going to take a heck of a lot more talent than we have now or have coming in this year to beat the likes of a Florida or Alabama....or even Georgia or South Carolina.
 
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