White Pride; Negative Connotation

[Coach Grizz]

Ok ima throw this out there. Is it racist to root for your race in a particular sport? Case in point Tiger Woods. I remember when TW came on the golf scene I was in middle school/ High School and for me to see a black guy that looks like me playing a predominant white sport I was like hell yeah do it Tiger. If it not been for him I'd never picked up a golf club. I don't think it's racist if a white kid looks up to Dirk Novinski or Jordy Nelson (I'm a fan of both). Or like when I see a white running back I'll say "that's a bad white boy". Is that racist? No IMO, im not hating I'm congratulating!!

 

[zjcvols]

Americans should be proud of being the greatest modern civilization in the history of the world. We have done and invented more and greater than any country, ever.

But, I still think we have the largest scars of any country because we completely demoralized and denigrated almost every other race of people in this country, including the natives, for the vast majority of our collective history. I know, I know, it's easy for me to be so haughty and judge when my country is one of the few that completely allows me the freedom to do just that, but I just don't think we should ever forget what we did until 1863 and then continued to do until the 1960s, all while already having wiped out the unspeakably vast majority of natives hundreds of years ago. To celebrate a great deal of our past has always left me conflicted. On the other hand, it's always been simple to understand the pride of Black Americans and Native Americans, for they really had to fight and endure together, as the vast minorities, I don't even have the words to say what they experienced, while white Americans were running all over them.

I've always found most of those who were overtly proud to be white to be ignorant and insecure. No **** we should be proud of our accomplishments, but in the face of what we did to other races during the founding and growth of this country, we still haven't done enough to assuage the shame of years past. I'm not talking about Affirmative Action or reparations, I'm talking about understanding that, as is often the case in history, the greatest heights were achieved by those walking on the backs of the marginalized to succeed.

I celebrate Black History Month and abhor those who say things such as, "well what about White History Month?" What about it? It was almost every month of every year until so recently I'm ashamed to think about it.

This country is great, now, because it's a palette of color, race, and mixtures are happening more frequently because we're evolving. To celebrate the history of "white" America, is to ignorantly omit the bad while only celebrating the good. Who could celebrate the Trail of Tears or Jim Crow laws? They are most undoubtedly an example of what you get when you want to see colorless, white pride.



I'm gonna get murdered for that.

My thoughts on this exactly.

For example:

I always have a hard time celebrating the fathers of our country because they were sexist, racist people. So, yes, what they did I appreciate, but I also know that they basically only cared about white men when writing it, despite writing a very nice Constitution.

Does that make sense?

 

[RespectTradition]

The 14th Amendment states that hiring someone based on their race is in-fact unlawful discrimination. That is where I am drawing my opinion from.

Actually, you are wrong on this point. The 14th amendment only applies to the government and not private actions. You may be referring to the CRA though.

 

[PoochPunt3rdDown]

Ok ima throw this out there. Is it racist to root for your race in a particular sport? Case in point Tiger Woods. I remember when TW came on the golf scene I was in middle school/ High School and for me to see a black guy that looks like me playing a predominant white sport I was like hell yeah do it Tiger. If it not been for him I'd never picked up a golf club. I don't think it's racist if a white kid looks up to Dirk Novinski or Jordy Nelson (I'm a fan of both). Or like when I see a white running back I'll say "that's a bad white boy". Is that racist? No IMO, im not hating I'm congratulating!!

Nope, unless I'm a racist, because I loved the fact we had a young, black-ish, American who was the best player to come along since Jack. It wasn't much over a decade before that, that Wade Houston was initially denied membership to Cherokee Country Club in Knoxville, which (as you might have noticed, I'm a bit of a Tennessee Basketball fan) was one of the defining moments in my young like in regards to understanding racism and why it sucked.

I am probably one of the few, but I can't stand it when Skylar brings the house down when he nails a 3 as opposed to Jordan or Trae, when they do. I love Skylar, don't get me wrong, but I think it makes our fanbase look simple and weirdly vindictive; like we showed them! Yuck.

 

[zjcvols]

Very interesting post. I appreciate the time that went into writing it. I think that people have reacted strongly to a balancing of races in terms of the way that we look at history these days. Now that we are willing to say that the majority of this country might have been misguided in our policies in terms of Jim Crow and slavery, some may interpret that as an attack or shaming of white people.

I also feel that there is a backlash because people feel they should not be blamed for something their ancestors did.

I find race relations so fascinating.

I wish more people would talk about race. It would help in my opinion.

The bold part: I always get asked "Who cares? Wasn't our fault." The reason I tell people it's important to understand the past is because A) It helps you know why race relations is so bad in this country. B) Because it can happen to you (look at how the Latino population is rising. If it keeps growing they will become the majority). C) We need to learn the bad so we don't make the same mistakes.

Was it your fault? No, it wasn't. But you need to understand why some black people our hesitant of whites, because they hear stories from other blacks.

 

[Nerd-Vol]

Actually, you are wrong on this point. The 14th amendment only applies to the government and not private actions. You may be referring to the CRA though.

Yeah, that is spot on. I omitted that important detail that it applies to the government and not the private. Thanks for mentioning that.

 

[PoochPunt3rdDown]

My thoughts on this exactly.

For example:

I always have a hard time celebrating the fathers of our country because they were sexist, racist people. So, yes, what they did I appreciate, but I also know that they basically only cared about white men when writing it, despite writing a very nice Constitution.

Does that make sense?

Yes, especially in the face of writing about equality and liberty and freedom; not for everyone, mind you, but for those it is allowed, they're gonna get it on!!!

I almost imagine them as the guys saying "white pawr" on South Park or whatever show I remember that from in my past...

Also another reason I think the Constitution is not static and should be improved as the times change. You never see me in a white powdered wig and you'll never see Alexander Hamilton post on the internet.

 

[PoochPunt3rdDown]

There were no black people in Gatlinburg, when I was a kid, not any, zilch, none.

 

[zjcvols]

Ok ima throw this out there. Is it racist to root for your race in a particular sport? Case in point Tiger Woods. I remember when TW came on the golf scene I was in middle school/ High School and for me to see a black guy that looks like me playing a predominant white sport I was like hell yeah do it Tiger. If it not been for him I'd never picked up a golf club. I don't think it's racist if a white kid looks up to Dirk Novinski or Jordy Nelson (I'm a fan of both). Or like when I see a white running back I'll say "that's a bad white boy". Is that racist? No IMO, im not hating I'm congratulating!!

To me, it doesn't matter. This is my personal opinion by the way, there is no right or wrong.

I guess when you cheered for Tiger Woods, it was because of the stereotypes blacks don't play golf or in basketball whites don't play basketball.

I don't feel like that. I personally don't care because every single person is their own individual and is different than every other person.

I'm not very educated on the matter (I think about it a lot, but I don't read a ton about it nor have I studied it a lot), but to me racism is where you think you are better than someone because of your race or skin color. Hitler was racist because he thought everyone was better than Jews for example.

I feel racism is looking down upon for their race. Stereotypes are different than racism IMO. Stereotypes are bad and I can't stand them as in my previous statements. I can't stand racism earlier.

With bham earlier, he likes asian women the best in terms of beauty. He's not looking down on other women of certain races, he's just making a personal preference.

To wrap it up, I do think we've become somewhat too PC, but I do get why we are because of our nation's past. We don't want to offend anybody because of their race. That's just mean and no need for it. So we do need to be careful about what we say, but we do need (as a country) to improve race relations.

 

[zjcvols]

Yes, especially in the face of writing about equality and liberty and freedom; not for everyone, mind you, but for those it is allowed, they're gonna get it on!!!

I almost imagine them as the guys saying "white pawr" on South Park or whatever show I remember that from in my past...

Also another reason I think the Constitution is not static and should be improved as the times change. You never see me in a white powdered wig and you'll never see Alexander Hamilton post on the internet.

There are definitely problems pertaining to the Constitution. Do we need a radical overhaul of the whole thing? Most likely no. But we do need to have things about limiting government, more careful spending, enforcing foreign policy procedures, and include things that are relevant in today's world.

 

[PoochPunt3rdDown]

zjc, where are you from and what's your story, if only a brief synopsis. I'm really curious because you're one of these young guys I'm seeing more often in East Tennessee who is very conservative and also open minded about race. Sadly, I almost found those two to be mutually exclusive, behind closed doors, when I was growing up...

 

[zjcvols]

There were no black people in Gatlinburg, when I was a kid, not any, zilch, none.

And there's another thing. Grizz mentioned it earlier, and so did sparta, but most of the time you are going to line up with who you are most comfortable with.

I've never had a black person in my home. NEVER. Not because my parents are racist or anything like that, but because I went to an all white private school and an all white church, and my high school life was church and school for various reasons.

So growing up, my views of blacks were basically television and entertainment. Whether this is fair or not, I looked as blacks as basketball players, rappers, some politicians, or poor ghetto kids. That's what is portrayed on television.

Obviously that's not true, and I've grown from those stereotypes, but I do think there is some veil racism in entertainment despite the improvements made.

I watched a movie recently where there were about ten black people. Five was a good guy and his family, and the rest were gangbangers. How many whites were gangbangers? None, despite almost all the movie being white actors, and 3/4 of the good guys being white.

 

[PoochPunt3rdDown]

There are definitely problems pertaining to the Constitution. Do we need a radical overhaul of the whole thing? Most likely no. But we do need to have things about limiting government, more careful spending, enforcing foreign policy procedures, and include things that are relevant in today's world.

It's awesome to hear you extolling your conservative politics in a thread about race relations. I've always admired those who broke down barriers, and did it, not because they were trying to, but because they were just raised or learned to believe that way; example: we had a really conservative, charismatic black kid in my high school (which was extremely conservative), and I always admired the way he would destroy myself and the other liberals in debates during meetings of one of the clubs we were all in, and then turn around and call out members of his political ilk for their veiled racism. We all shut the hell up when he was speaking. That is progress. But, that was the only example I can think of as a young guy (almost 20 years ago :cray of a black guy crossing that barrier.

 

[zjcvols]

zjc, where are you from and what's your story, if only a brief synopsis. I'm really curious because you're one of these young guys I'm seeing more often in East Tennessee who is very conservative and also open minded about race. Sadly, I almost found those two to be mutually exclusive, behind closed doors, when I was growing up...

No prob.

Two parent home. Dad was in the military (USCG) for twenty years and moved back to East Tennessee with my mom's family and my dad's parents. My parents are deeply religious in their christian faith. Though many disagreements between us, they aren't a cult and are usually open minded. I was sort of a rebel. We were middle class but money was tight b/c of five children and they spent a lot of their money on sending us to a christian school.

The reason I hate stereotypes is because I went against the norm not only from my family but because of my school. 98% of kids there had good money. The other 2% were like me and only reason they could afford going there because their parents were teachers.

But anyways, I grew up classified as a "wigger". Heard it all my life and still do actually. My favorite music was rap. I wore flat billed hats, baggy jeans, sport jerseys. Talked like I was "black" (though that's a dumb stereotype too, I just liked how rappers talked). I always feel as if every person is there own person. I never tried to pretend I was from the ghetto. That's just who I was. I like that style of music and clothing. So that's why I'm open to talking about stereotypes and racism. Because it's a huge issue in our country and there's too many close minded people on the issue.

I do usually line up towards conservative, though I consider myself an independent. I'm also young. I'm 19. So I'm still growing as a person.

 

[zjcvols]

It's awesome to hear you extolling your conservative politics in a thread about race relations. I've always admired those who broke down barriers, and did it, not because they were trying to, but because they were just raised or learned to believe that way; example: we had a really conservative, charismatic black kid in my high school (which was extremely conservative), and I always admired the way he would destroy myself and the other liberals in debates during meetings of one of the clubs we were all in, and then turn around and call out members of his political ilk for their veiled racism. We all shut the hell up when he was speaking. That is progress. But, that was the only example I can think of as a young guy (almost 20 years ago :cray of a black guy crossing that barrier.

I classify myself as both. It's very odd. I support homosexual marriage but think abortion is immoral (though there are some circumstances). I absolutely love our men in uniform and they should be commended, but hate how the government uses them. I love how our country is set up with checks and balances, yet I hate politicians and think they are a joke. I'm a Christian, yet I think the way Christians treat non-Christians is a joke and makes me embarrass to be associated with them.

I'm a mixed bag, so to speak.

 

[Weezer]

IMO, racism is perpetuated by people of all colors. I doubt I'll ever see it in my lifetime, but I would treasure a day when the color of a person's skin just doesn't matter.

MLK- "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."

How you conduct yourself should mean more than what color your skin is.

A few other thoughts on the subject, I do not believe in affirmative action because, IMO, it promotes the idea of hiring based on skin color and not character. To me, this flies directly in the face of what Dr. King wanted. He wanted equality, not to be treated better, but to be treated the same. I appreciate the idea of Black History Month, but still see it as a form of segregation. History should be acknowledged in all its forms.

Racism isn't really about skin color, it's about hate. Racists are just people full of hate looking for somewhere to direct it. Skin color is just an easy difference to focus on.

And Pooch, while I see your point, there is one thing that rarely gets acknowledged in the history of slavery that bothers me. Many Africans were sold into slavery by other Africans. Early white America certainly perpetuated it with their demand, but their is guilt on both sides. And also,since you referenced it, the single most tragic event in the history of our country, IMO, was The Trail of Tears. Not only did we force the Cherokee from their homes, we gave them blankets infested with small pox. It was attempted genocide. Too me, that was the lowest of low points, and it saddens me it was perpetrated by a fellow Tennesseean.

 

[zjcvols]

IMO, racism is perpetuated by people of all colors. I doubt I'll ever see it in my lifetime, but I would treasure a day when the color of a person's skin just doesn't matter.

MLK- "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."

How you conduct yourself should mean more than what color your skin is.

A few other thoughts on the subject, I do not believe in affirmative action because, IMO, it promotes the idea of hiring based on skin color and not character. To me, this flies directly in the face of what Dr. King wanted. He wanted equality, not to be treated better, but to be treated the same. I appreciate the idea of Black History Month, but still see it as a form of segregation. History should be acknowledged in all its forms.

Racism isn't really about skin color, it's about hate. Racists are just people full of hate looking for somewhere to direct it. Skin color is just an easy difference to focus on.

And Pooch, while I see your point, there is one thing that rarely gets acknowledged in the history of slavery that bothers me. Many Africans were sold into slavery by other Africans. Early white America certainly perpetuated it with their demand, but their is guilt on both sides. And also,since you referenced it, the single most tragic event in the history of our country, IMO, was The Trail of Tears. Not only did we force the Cherokee from their homes, we gave them blankets infested with small pox. It was attempted genocide. Too me, that was the lowest of low points, and it saddens me it was perpetrated by a fellow Tennesseean.

I agree with Affirmative Action. It has done what needed to be done IMO. It was necessary at the time though.

Black History Month isn't segregation. I celebrate Black History Month by reading Dr. King's and Malcolm X's speeches. I think Black History Month should be celebrated by all, just like Latino History Month.

I always laugh when white conservative Tennesseans complain about the illegal immigrants. "Well, them darn taco fiesta whatchamacallits are taking over this country and we got to stop them." And I think every damn time "Yeah, like the Pilgrims started in 1620 and just kept going with the Native Americans."

What we did to them is a cruel injustice and exactly what Hitler did to the Jews, only not as effectively and not as loud.

 

[zjcvols]

Weezer, about your slavery comments:

I agree in a sense. Everyone is guilty. All races have their flaws. However, we do not answer for Africa. We answer for ourselves. And we are guilty of treating blacks horribly with slavery. The reason they did it was because they are in high demand. Should Africans be ashamed? Yes. However, I don't live in Africa and am not from Africa. I'm from America and I'm ashamed of slavery and the past it has in our country.

JMO.

 

[PoochPunt3rdDown]

You pretty much nailed it, there. I'm a liberal doofus and will never change for my own reasons, but some of the posters in this forum have changed my mind about the divisions I used to think existed, almost completely, between the liberals and conservatives. I now understand that younger conservatives are no longer closet racists and homophobes and have what I have always thought were the strongest values: acceptance, abandonment of stereotyping, true belief in equality, etc. That was always my biggest hang-up with most conservatives, when you got them behind closed doors, they were immediately different people, and so elitist it was just despicable.

 

[zjcvols]

It's awesome to hear you extolling your conservative politics in a thread about race relations. I've always admired those who broke down barriers, and did it, not because they were trying to, but because they were just raised or learned to believe that way; example: we had a really conservative, charismatic black kid in my high school (which was extremely conservative), and I always admired the way he would destroy myself and the other liberals in debates during meetings of one of the clubs we were all in, and then turn around and call out members of his political ilk for their veiled racism. We all shut the hell up when he was speaking. That is progress. But, that was the only example I can think of as a young guy (almost 20 years ago :cray of a black guy crossing that barrier.

This is important too Poochie.

In the 179 years before the death of Dr. King, blacks were treated incredibly bad by the government. All minorities actually, including white (Irish especially). So I think among blacks there is a general mistrust among a majority white government that they don't care about them and only care about who is like them.

It's why I didn't have such a big issue when blacks came out in droves to support President Obama. They felt that for once, they would have someone looking out for them, and that equality and racism would disappear. Sadly, that hasn't happened, and it was an unfair idea to have (although Obama has done nothing to help race relations, and it sucks because he can).

 

[zjcvols]

You pretty much nailed it, there. I'm a liberal doofus and will never change for my own reasons, but some of the posters in this forum have changed my mind about the divisions I used to think existed, almost completely, between the liberals and conservatives. I now understand that younger conservatives are no longer closet racists and homophobes and have what I have always thought were the strongest values: acceptance, abandonment of stereotyping, true belief in equality, etc. That was always my biggest hang-up with most conservatives, when you got them behind closed doors, they were immediately different people, and so elitist it was just despicable.

It's a huge problem for young conservatives because that's what they are labeled with. And who wants to be labeled that? As elitist, racist homophobes? Nobody at all. It's why more younger people are liberal. Because of the stereotype of the conservative. Yeah, liberals might be oversensitive, big spending commies (and not saying that they are at all), but it's better than being a white trash homophobic minority hating big government loser.

 

[Weezer]

I agree with Affirmative Action. It has done what needed to be done IMO. It was necessary at the time though.

Black History Month isn't segregation. I celebrate Black History Month by reading Dr. King's and Malcolm X's speeches. I think Black History Month should be celebrated by all, just like Latino History Month.

I always laugh when white conservative Tennesseans complain about the illegal immigrants. "Well, them darn taco fiesta whatchamacallits are taking over this country and we got to stop them." And I think every damn time "Yeah, like the Pilgrims started in 1620 and just kept going with the Native Americans."

What we did to them is a cruel injustice and exactly what Hitler did to the Jews, only not as effectively and not as loud.

My point on Black History Month is that history shouldn't be separated by color. Dr. King and Malcolm X were strong leaders at a time when our nation was in turmoil. They should be included in American history. Early black writers are now being incorporated into American literature. History is history and when made, it shouldn't matter the color of their skin.

 

[zjcvols]

My point on Black History Month is that history shouldn't be separated by color. Dr. King and Malcolm X were strong leaders at a time when our nation was in turmoil. They should be included in American history. Early black writers are now being incorporated into American literature. History is history and when made, it shouldn't matter the color of their skin.

I can see that point. When I think of Black History Month, I don't think of celebrating black people per se, but the Civil Rights Movement and what they accomplished.

Maybe that's just me.

 

[Weezer]

Weezer, about your slavery comments:

I agree in a sense. Everyone is guilty. All races have their flaws. However, we do not answer for Africa. We answer for ourselves. And we are guilty of treating blacks horribly with slavery. The reason they did it was because they are in high demand. Should Africans be ashamed? Yes. However, I don't live in Africa and am not from Africa. I'm from America and I'm ashamed of slavery and the past it has in our country.

JMO.

Here's my problem with that, many black Americans claim to be African Americans. If you make that claim you acknowledge both cultures and therefore should acknowledge the sins of both cultures. As a white American, I agree that I am ashamed of many things in this country's past, slavery just being one of them. But I am an American and claim no other culture than that. I do not consider myself a racist, but when people claim to be African American, Latino American, etc., I have a problem with it. We are all Americans and I see no reason to differentiate ourselves with labels. Labels perpetuate stereotypes and serve no purpose but division.

 

[PoochPunt3rdDown]

IMO, racism is perpetuated by people of all colors. I doubt I'll ever see it in my lifetime, but I would treasure a day when the color of a person's skin just doesn't matter.

MLK- "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."

How you conduct yourself should mean more than what color your skin is.

A few other thoughts on the subject, I do not believe in affirmative action because, IMO, it promotes the idea of hiring based on skin color and not character. To me, this flies directly in the face of what Dr. King wanted. He wanted equality, not to be treated better, but to be treated the same. I appreciate the idea of Black History Month, but still see it as a form of segregation. History should be acknowledged in all its forms.

Racism isn't really about skin color, it's about hate. Racists are just people full of hate looking for somewhere to direct it. Skin color is just an easy difference to focus on.

And Pooch, while I see your point, there is one thing that rarely gets acknowledged in the history of slavery that bothers me. Many Africans were sold into slavery by other Africans. Early white America certainly perpetuated it with their demand, but their is guilt on both sides. And also,since you referenced it, the single most tragic event in the history of our country, IMO, was The Trail of Tears. Not only did we force the Cherokee from their homes, we gave them blankets infested with small pox. It was attempted genocide. Too me, that was the lowest of low points, and it saddens me it was perpetrated by a fellow Tennesseean.

Great point about the even more insidious (as if it wasn't already awful enough) side of the Trail.

As to your point about blacks being sold into slavery by other blacks, I'm fairly sure it was akin to the caste system in India, where there were certain tribes, families, or what have you, that were responsible for exploiting the vast majority of the slaves who were sold to Americans. This doesn't make it any less despicable, but I think it's very near-sighted to say their weren't huge differences amongst different sects of Africans, and some were just looked down on and used, because of different reasons that were akin in theory to why many protestant whites looked down on Catholics and almost everyone except blacks and natives looked down on the Irish. It was based upon ancient divisions that should have been wiped away by the migration to the America, where everyone was supposed to be equal.

A great example here in Tennessee was the Melungeons of Newman's Ridge. They were a mixed race group of people who were Native American, Sub-Saharan African, and Iberian Peninsula European. They had very dark complexions and were classified, at different times throughout, as white, "Free Nego", but were mainly discriminated against because they weren't understood. To me, they were the most indicative of all people in Tennessee of what America was to become, with the blending of cultures and bloodlines, but absconded themselves on the Ridge to avoid persecution, all while developing a culture that would not be accepted until the 1960s and is now a part of American folklore. It seems we tend to find out later how rich diversity is, after we missed it while it was occurring just up the hill...