Why is it taking so long to turn around?

#351
#351
PimpVol said:
Have you seen him at corner?
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As a freshman yeah. And yes he made quite a few mistakes....as a freshman. But no more than a guy like Justin Coleman made as a freshman. Point being, if he's not developed into a decent player by now that's on the coaches. However he seems to make a lot of plays, damn sure makes more plays than the guys we have. You act like he was some rag tag run of the mill recruit. Gordon was a pretty highly recruited guy and IMO is a pretty good football player. Can you name ANYONE who should be starting at corner over him? Besides Prentiss who already starts, can you honestly say Gordon isn't better than anyone on the list. And don't give me this I don't see him in practice mumbo jumbo. We've all seen him in the game SINCE his freshman year and it's clear that he's not that same guy. If you compare what he's done in games, who would you say is better. Because I can tell you this. Folks like you keep talking about him being a risk taker and it costing him. But very seldom if ever do you see him getting COMPLETELY EMBARRASSED on a regular basis like you do Coleman or Teague. Coleman is gonna be good but isn't there yet. Seems like on a regular basis Gordon is making a big hit and has a nose for the ball. Again, he's no Dion Sanders, but who do you think is better?
 
#352
#352
PimpVol said:
Have you seen him at corner?
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By the way, you do know we beat out Bama for Gordon don't you. In fact, it wasn't even looking good with him at one point and time. Kiffin made a huge pull on that one. If these guys aren't SEC quality I don't see how you can point to anything other than coaching.
 
#354
#354
ajvol01 said:
Kiffin set us back 2 years with his "hot sauce/make a splash" recruiting.

LK ignored obvious needs on OL/DL. Half of his recruits from #10 ranked 2009 recuiting class are no longer on team.
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This is absolutely correct.

Add in the quality guys he ran off (not only Phil's recruits - Tajh Boyd among them - but the guys already wearing the helmet), and it was like General Sherman had risen from the grave to raze Knoxville like it was his job.
 
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#355
#355
Of the three classes that Dooley inherited, not counting the juco's he has brought in (Rivera):

2010 Sr class: Terrible
2011 Sr class: Terrible
2012 Sr class: Terrible

That's why. DD hasn't helped him self much on the field though I must say. He has 3 weeks to make a statement, or he'll be hitting the bricks.

I'd guess that 90% of the DD haters do not believe the truth about the 2010-12 sr classes, or they do not understand it, or are not smart enough to realize it. But it's true. Imagine having sophomores, juniors and seniors that can't play and being asked to compete in the toughest conference in America.

I'm indifferent to DD as a coach. I root for him, but I do not believe he has earned the right to get a free pass this year. He needs to show it on the field. This team is good enough to win some games.
 
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#356
#356
volberry said:
I don't even blame DD. I just want to know why it takes us 5 years and we're still in the bottom half of the east. I don't get it.
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the roster was gutted after Fulmer left. He didn't leave as good of players as in the past but when you have 45 players (number is players leaving since Fulmer was fired through this year) leave the roster without completing their eligibility, it is an impact.

then constant coaching changes, we have had at least one coaching change every year since 2007. coaching changes always lead to player attrition. Players and new coaches don't always hit it off.

Those are the two biggest reasons and the struggle will continue with more coaching changes and more player attrition. Even if Dooley isn't gone, I suspect there will be SOME changes on the staff.
 
#357
#357
LWSVOL said:
the roster was gutted after Fulmer left. He didn't leave as good of players as in the past but when you have 45 players (number is players leaving since Fulmer was fired through this year) leave the roster without completing their eligibility, it is an impact.

then constant coaching changes, we have had at least one coaching change every year since 2007. coaching changes always lead to player attrition. Players and new coaches don't always hit it off.

Those are the two biggest reasons and the struggle will continue with more coaching changes and more player attrition. Even if Dooley isn't gone, I suspect there will be SOME changes on the staff.
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the only 3 left to change is chaney,hinshaw and Dooley himself.I dont see the offense giving up 67,70 yd runs.So I dont think its the offense thats the problem.That leaves Dooley.Other than that we cant afford to let Dooley keep change all these coaches every year.Sooner or later he has to catch the blame.
 
#358
#358
blah blah. msu showed improvement in year two, backtraked in year 3 , and now undefeated in year four under mullen. they have nowhere near our history to recruit with. somethings up with the coaching.
 
#359
#359
It is taking so long because it is a "bye week" and don't be fooled by the "week" ... it should be called a "bye eternity."
 
#360
#360
RichRollin said:
By the way, you do know we beat out Bama for Gordon don't you. In fact, it wasn't even looking good with him at one point and time. Kiffin made a huge pull on that one. If these guys aren't SEC quality I don't see how you can point to anything other than coaching.
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Yes, I remember. He was Kiffin's first commit. I don't think we have an SEC corner right now. The freshmen may come on in the second half of the season. But, right now Teague Waggner and Gordon are not even close.
 
#361
#361
volberry said:
blah blah. msu showed improvement in year two, backtraked in year 3 , and now undefeated in year four under mullen. they have nowhere near our history to recruit with. somethings up with the coaching.
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Undefeated against UGA, UF, UA, South Carolina & LSU? Or nobody in particular? I'm going with the second answer.
 
#362
#362
RichRollin said:
As a freshman yeah. And yes he made quite a few mistakes....as a freshman. But no more than a guy like Justin Coleman made as a freshman. Point being, if he's not developed into a decent player by now that's on the coaches.
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Coaching can not make a bad skill position player a good one. He just does not possess cover corner skills. A guy like Ramsey or Alexander does. They will be good wherever they go play. You have it or you don't out on that edge. No where to hide.-- He was highly recruited. But he is not a Randall Cobb, Hightower or a John Henderson type recruit. I'd say him and Teague are highly overrated actually. LSU did not want Waggner. Remember Lucas Taylor? LSU did not want him either. Is he a pro now? Exactly. We need big time guys to return to the big time. We would know by now if Gordon was.
 
#364
#364
PimpVol said:
Coaching can not make a bad skill position player a good one. He just does not possess cover corner skills. A guy like Ramsey or Alexander does. They will be good wherever they go play. You have it or you don't out on that edge. No where to hide.-- He was highly recruited. But he is not a Randall Cobb, Hightower or a John Henderson type recruit. I'd say him and Teague are highly overrated actually. LSU did not want Waggner. Remember Lucas Taylor? LSU did not want him either. Is he a pro now? Exactly. We need big time guys to return to the big time. We would know by now if Gordon was.
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That's simply not true. Coaching changes everything. Talent does matter. But you can't tell me that an UNDERCOACHED talent can simply dominate purely off talent. And less talented guys who are well coached have been known to get it done. Even Jalen Ramsey won't walk on a division one field and dominate off pure talent. That's just silly.
 
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#365
#365
RichRollin said:
That's simply not true. Coaching changes everything. Talent does matter. But you can't tell me that an UNDERCOACHED talent can simply dominate purely off talent. And less talented guys who are well coached have been known to get it done. Even Jalen Ramsey won't walk on a division one field and dominate off pure talent. That's just silly.
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All frosh make mistakes and have to learn. Some dont even get on the field. And I did not say dominate. Few freshmen dominate at any position. Again, EG showed in his first year that he is not a top level starting corner. That type of ability is rarely coached up. It is more often recruited.
 
#367
#367
PimpVol said:
All frosh make mistakes and have to learn. Some dont even get on the field. And I did not say dominate. Few freshmen dominate at any position. Again, EG showed in his first year that he is not a top level starting corner. That type of ability is rarely coached up. It is more often recruited.
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Why did Bama want Gordon? Our current DBs for the most part were highly recruited. They have underperformed and now everyone says we need new players. You are vastly underestimating the power of good coaching. Go back and look at Gordon's schools he was choosing from. Go back and look at his recruiting threat on this site. Look at the reaction from the VolNation when he committed. Now the very same people are complaining. If coached properly he has the tools.
 
#369
#369
Dooley is doing ok with recruiting, but I don't see players playing to their full potential on the field. That goes back to coaching. Dooley will be gone in a few years and we be coaching in the MAC/WAC type school.
 
#371
#371
RichRollin said:
Why did Bama want Gordon? Our current DBs for the most part were highly recruited. They have underperformed and now everyone says we need new players. You are vastly underestimating the power of good coaching. Go back and look at Gordon's schools he was choosing from. Go back and look at his recruiting threat on this site. Look at the reaction from the VolNation when he committed. Now the very same people are complaining. If coached properly he has the tools.
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All highly recruited guys don't pan out. People are wrong all the time on kids ability. Having said that, Gordon could easily take over at CB this week if he puts it all together. But will he? He is good in the nickel spot to me and moving him in hopes of a re-birth at corner is a sketchy proposition at best.
 
#372
#372
volberry said:
I don't even blame DD. I just want to know why it takes us 5 years and we're still in the bottom half of the east. I don't get it.
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Whether you believe in Dooley or not at least be accurate. Dooley is in the middle of his 3rd season so he has been the head coach for 2 1/2 seasons. The rebuilding started with the 2010 class which means Dooley has only had 3 recruiting classes to work with. Dooley has not proven anything to make me believe he can ultimately get the job done but to be fair considering where this program was after 2009 he hasn't had enough time to get the program back to where everyone wants it to be.
 
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#373
#373
To answer this question, I can offer no more authoritative perspective than coffeevol's paraphrased citation of Coach Majors' statement during his appearance on 104.5 FM: "When asked about comparing his situation when he took the job to Dooleys situation he walked into he said, " Mine was tough, it took us a long time to get it where it needed to be lots of peaks and valleys and it was a rebuild, but I think Dooleys was tougher maybe, What Lane Kiffin did was grab the wheel of an 18 wheeler that was without brakes and headed down Monteagle/ Sewanee mountain and it was out of control. Then he bailed on the UT (for his dream job) and 5 or 10 of those hotshot recruits bailed on us too, then came Dooley who took over a way worse situation that Lane did. The kids who played for Lane and that other guy, neither liked Dooley in the begining but he is smart and if the fans do not run him off he will get 'em fixed but it may take more than 2 1/2 years but they are better today than they were when "the other guy" was let go and much better than when Lane jumped on 'em" See http://www.volnation.com/forum/tennessee-vols-football/173210-majors-104-5-nashville.html .
 
#374
#374
I didnt want to admit we were in that bad of shape when Dooley took over. But, if you look back at it he took over a jv vols team. Give this man some time at least this whole season. Good grief charlie brown dont run this man out of town. He will get the JOB done at MSU and we will be 4-2 playing Alabama on the big boy stage at 3:30 cbs. Dont let your coach hate ruin your celebration when we shock the world and beat an over rated Bama team! GO VOLS!
 
#375
#375
GLDunlap said:
Whether you believe in Dooley or not at least be accurate. Dooley is in the middle of his 3rd season so he has been the head coach for 2 1/2 seasons. The rebuilding started with the 2010 class which means Dooley has only had 3 recruiting classes to work with. Dooley has not proven anything to make me believe he can ultimately get the job done but to be fair considering where this program was after 2009 he hasn't had enough time to get the program back to where everyone wants it to be.
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I don't understand why that is too complicated for people to agree with
 
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