Why is Trump destroying NATO ?

Why is Trump destroying NATO?

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#376
#376
If anything..cannot we agree that the French translation of NATO as OTAN needs to be done away with?
 
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#377
#377
lawgator1 said:
White House on John Kelly’s reaction at NATO breakfast: ‘He was expecting a full breakfast and there were only pastries and cheese’ - The Washington Post


You just cannot make this up.













Trump is a disaster. Come on! Get his azz out of there now! What an embarrassment he and the entire administration are to this country. Its pathetic.
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Trump, while not very articulate, has a completely valid point here.

We're putting troops in Germany to defend against Russia, while they accept a large portion of their energy from Russia. If Russia wanted to invade Germany, it would be as simple as turning out the lights. Trump sees that as a problem and has the best interest of Germany in mind.
 
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#378
#378
BowlBrother85 said:
Trump's claim that Germany relies on Russia for 60-70% of it's energy is an exaggeration... and today really just further confirmed how much more comfortable Trump is, in dealing with authoritarian leaders than he is with our democratic allies. He has never been as publicly critical of Putin as he was Trudeau during the G-7 Summit or today with Merkel and Germany during the NATO Summit. That's a fact.
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You do realize the implications of a renewables/gas power grid when the clouds roll in, temps drop, and snow falls?
 
#379
#379
AM64 said:
You do realize the implications of a renewables/gas power grid when the clouds roll in, temps drop, and snow falls?
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Yeah...Some like to rationalize that 9% is no big deal. What would happen if the US was without 9% of it's electrical output overnight?

Even 9% at the lowest estimate has huge negative economic and welfare of citizen impact.
 
#380
#380
It doesn't matter what % it is right now. Germany, and a few other European nations, are taking a hard turn into Renewables and closing Nuclear and Coal. That means their Natural Gas usage is going to skyrocket. Germany will absolutely be reliant on Russian natural gas. Which will have a huge effect on their economy since it's a manufacturing one. Any price change will bone them.
 
#381
#381
This will end with the U.S. having to remove its missile defense systems from the Baltic. That's always been Russia's main concern. By making that region dependent on them for energy, they will be able to press for it.

The same thing is happening in Soth Korea. They are turning away from nuclear to natural gas from, you guessed it, Russia. We also have missile defense systems there.
 
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#386
#386
I'm no fan of Trump, but I do believe he played his cards at the NATO summit beautifully! In the past when the US "suggested" that each nation pay more of their fair share, the response was a pat on the back, with "Sure. Whatever!" and after the summit they did nothing.

Trump used the power of twitter and media to send a very strong message that he meant business. If the other NATO nations don't play fair, the US will take our ball and leave! His message had to be convincing. Reading the media's screams and responses, he was very convincing.

I believe now that NATO is stronger than ever. Every nation now knows if they don't do as they pledged (not promise), Trump will embarrass them in the media and his tweets like he did Germany. The end result is good. Trump comes out of the summit as a strong leader who gets things done.
 
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#389
#389
Need to suspend their membership if they can't pay their dues. In that group photo they should hold a sign saying how far behind they are with payments to NATO. NATO was formed to protect Euros from Russia because the euros pose no threat alone. They need a big tough best friend. Our only benefit is to get members to send a small amount of troops to hotspots occasionally to imitate a coalition, even if there is none. Starting to wonder why we pay for any of the cost?
 
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#390
#390
Matt2496 said:
Trump, while not very articulate, has a completely valid point here.

We're putting troops in Germany to defend against Russia, while they accept a large portion of their energy from Russia. If Russia wanted to invade Germany, it would be as simple as turning out the lights. Trump sees that as a problem and has the best interest of Germany in mind.
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Germany is playing both sides of the coin.
 
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#391
#391
IPleadInsanity said:
Need to suspend their membership if they can't pay their dues. In that group photo they should hold a sign saying how far behind they are with payments to NATO. NATO was formed to protect Euros from Russia because the euros pose no threat alone. They need a big tough best friend. Our only benefit is to get members to send a small amount of troops to hotspots occasionally to imitate a coalition, even if there is none. Starting to wonder why we pay for any of the cost?
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Actually the smaller states contribute something I think is really important. Geography. I think it’s a mistake to discount geography. Having a rapid jump off point with equipment already in place shouldn’t be discounted. Plus I’d always rather fight a war on somebody else’s turf.
 
#392
#392
StillStanding said:
I'm no fan of Trump, but I do believe he played his cards at the NATO summit beautifully! In the past when the US "suggested" that each nation pay more of their fair share, the response was a pat on the back, with "Sure. Whatever!" and after the summit they did nothing.

Trump used the power of twitter and media to send a very strong message that he meant business. If the other NATO nations don't play fair, the US will take our ball and leave! His message had to be convincing. Reading the media's screams and responses, he was very convincing.
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no, no, Trump didn't use the proper rules of diplomacy. You know, all of the leaders fap each other and then don't do anything.
 
#393
#393
Grand Vol said:
I think the threat of pulling out of NATO is something the media is making up (shocking, I know) but the overall question he asks is largely ignored by the media.

That Reuters report said 35% of German oil and gas come from Russia. With that likely to go up in the future. How exactly can you defend yourself (in Germany's case) if Russia really wanted to apply the screws to them? I'm talking economically and militarily.

Trump is correct in bringing this up. NATO and Germany wants to talk about the possible threat from Russia. But they put themselves in a position to be beholden to the same nation that's threatening them.
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Grand Vol said:
Furthermore, you libs should be screeching to support Trump on this.

You want to hurt Russia? Do it economically. Europe buys their oil and gas from us or other non-aligned nations.

No profits for Russia, they suck again.
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Bump.

Any takers?
 
#394
#394
NorthDallas40 said:
Actually the smaller states contribute something I think is really important. Geography. I think it’s a mistake to discount geography. Having a rapid jump off point with equipment already in place shouldn’t be discounted. Plus I’d always rather fight a war on somebody else’s turf.
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Valid point except for Turkey.
 
#396
#396
IPleadInsanity said:
Valid point except for Turkey.
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Turkey has some geography advantages too. Just not much related to NATO. Not classically for Russia directly at least. A lot of the satellites east of them it’s nice to have access to. But go get one of those satellites. In that regard Georgia makes more sense.

With the current Turkey political situation it doesn’t make a lot of sense. Especially when you factor in the whole Greece/Turkey/Cypress history.
 
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