Why not Tulsi Gabbard

#651
#651
kiddiedoc said:
In truth, the current policies of the Left are anything but liberal.
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Not convinced he understood the word to begin our conversation. He tried saying anyone who mocks the woke isn’t liberal. To which I pointed out Bill Maher as an obvious example of someone I disagree with greatly, but who is both very liberal and mocks the woke constantly
 
#652
#652
@zeppelin128 There is a 5 or so acre property at exit 109 on I-40 that used to be a truck stop until the federal government purchased the land and shut it down to widen the off ramp and hwy 109. As far as I know they still own that land and could easily park 200-300 trucks on it with minimal cost.
 
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#653
#653
Vol8188 said:
You said no liberal would mock “woke” people. It seems you’re just using the words “liberal” and “leftist” as you please with no actual definition.

We are beating a dead horse because you’re refusing to define your terms. What makes Pete liberal but Tulsi a leftist?

You’re getting grief for refusing to define these things. How is it liberal when Pete supports Medicare for all and the Green new deal but a leftist policy when tulsi does?

What’s your standard?
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Good grief.

Bernie and Tulsi: wants to abolish, ABOLISH, the private healthcare industry. THEY WANT TO NATIONALIZE HEALTHCARE
Pete: does not, DOES NOT, want to abolish the private healthcare industry
 
#654
#654
hog88 said:
@zeppelin128 There is a 5 or so acre property at exit 109 on I-40 that used to be a truck stop until the federal government purchased the land and shut it down to widen the off ramp and hwy 109. As far as I know they still own that land and could easily park 200-300 trucks on it with minimal cost.
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Why are you tagging me? Email Pete and let him know.
 
#655
#655
zeppelin128 said:
Good grief.

Bernie and Tulsi: wants to abolish, ABOLISH, the private healthcare industry. THEY WANT TO NATIONALIZE HEALTHCARE
Pete: does not, DOES NOT, want to abolish the private healthcare industry
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Correct. Pete only wants to make private healthcare available to the rich and unions.
 
#656
#656
zeppelin128 said:
Why are you tagging me? Email Pete and let him know.
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He’s the SOT and just got 22mil to spend, you’d think he would know where he could save some money.

Hell, let’s be honest for a minute. That money isn’t going to build the 1st truck parking spot and you know it.
 
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#657
#657
zeppelin128 said:
Good grief.

Bernie and Tulsi: wants to abolish, ABOLISH, the private healthcare industry. THEY WANT TO NATIONALIZE HEALTHCARE
Pete: does not, DOES NOT, want to abolish the private healthcare industry
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You’re still refusing to define your terms. And you’re fundamentally misunderstanding something.

The right doesn’t like Bernie or tulsi because their policies are close to right wing policies. But rather because they’re honest. Bernie doesn’t lie to us about “you’ll be able to keep your insurance” or “we will just tax the rich”. He tells you if you go with him you’ll have to tax the poor far more because the truth is we have one of the most progressive tax systems in the world and the truth is Medicare for all (as proposed by Bernie or Pete) would cause you to lose your insurance in 99% of cases.

Now do you intend on defining your terms? What makes one a leftist and the other a liberal? Or do you not personally know and are just using the terms randomly (as you’ve been doing all night)?
 
#658
#658
Vol8188 said:
Not convinced he understood the word to begin our conversation. He tried saying anyone who mocks the woke isn’t liberal. To which I pointed out Bill Maher as an obvious example of someone I disagree with greatly, but who is both very liberal and mocks the woke constantly
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Sigh. That isn't what I said at all.

I have repeatedly laid out my thoughts on all of this. It is what it is at this point.

How did Tulsi do on Tuckums tonight?
 
#659
#659
Vol8188 said:
You’re still refusing to define your terms. And you’re fundamentally misunderstanding something.

The right doesn’t like Bernie or tulsi because their policies are close to right wing policies. But rather because they’re honest. Bernie doesn’t lie to us about “you’ll be able to keep your insurance” or “we will just tax the rich”. He tells you if you go with him you’ll have to tax the poor far more because the truth is we have one of the most progressive tax systems in the world and the truth is Medicare for all (as proposed by Bernie or Pete) would cause you to lose your insurance in 99% of cases.

Now do you intend on defining your terms? What makes one a leftist and the other a liberal? Or do you not personally know and are just using the terms randomly (as you’ve been doing all night)?
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I have gone out of my way to describe those terms. I did it in my answer to your "asking bunch of questions" post.
 
#660
#660
zeppelin128 said:
Sigh. That isn't what I said at all.

I have repeatedly laid out my thoughts on all of this. It is what it is at this point.

How did Tulsi do on Tuckums tonight?
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zeppelin128 said:
I already gave you two examples of how Tulsi is not a liberal: M4A and GND. And to add, anyone that doesn't use the term "woke" ironically is not a liberal.
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Yeah, you 100% said she’s not liberal because she mocks the woke. You’ve not laid out any of this. You’ve not told me how she’s anti lgbtqia+, what books she wants to ban, or when she supported replacement theory.

You just pretend that somehow Medicare for all isn’t liberal unless you’re Pete and the green new deal isn’t liberla unless you’re Pete. But at no point have you explained what makes these things liberal vs leftist
 
#661
#661
zeppelin128 said:
Now to your questions lol.

I've never supported Medicare for All because it basically involves nationalizing the healthcare industry. I hate to keep bringing up Pete, but his healthcare plan from his campaign is where I'm at. Basically open up Medicare to everyone, and if they want to use it, let them. If they want to keep their private insurance or Obamacare insurance, let them. Pete basically revived the public option amendment that failed when the ACA passed in Obama's first term.

The Green New Deal was always a pipe-dream among leftists. There is no way it would pass Congress. It is too much, too fast. Also, it is very anti-nuclear power, which is frankly just dumb. I think an "all hands on deck" approach to power generation is best. You have coal in your region? Burn clean coal. Desert? Build solar farms. Want a nuclear plant? Build one. Natural gas deposit down the street? Natural gas plant. Plus, a diverse platform is not as beholden to worldwide whims of the market. AKA, don't put all your eggs in one basket.

Tulsi is a leftist populist, same as Bernie and the Squad. They are the Blue Hats to Trump's Red Hats. It is a running joke at some online places, but horseshoe theory is actually a thing. When one gets too far to the left (or right, for that matter), they start to mirror those they "oppose" on the other side. Populism is the common denominator here. For populism to function, there has to be an "enemy", an "other". Without it, the entire ideology collapses. Tulsi, Bernie, and the Squad employ the same talking points as far-right populists. They will throw whatever marginalized group they can under the bus if that means they can attain their goals. They reduce solutions down to class and class only, and there is always that pesky "other" shadow hanging around, messing everything up. This is why you see hardcore right-wing folks and Fox News randomly say at times, "huh, that Bernie and Tulsi is alright after they said 'x' thing!" when they would never in a million years say the same for Obama, Pete, Amy Klobuchar, Jon Osoff, or any other liberal.

Liberalism is antithetical to everything populists believe in, regardless of what side of the horseshoe they fall on. For example, "culture wars are a distraction", a common complaint among the far-left, is code for "**** them gay folks, forgive my student loans".

I'm a center-left liberal dude. Some on here have said I'll be a libertarian eventually. I don't know. But I do know that when I read a statement from Tulsi and I can't tell the difference from a hardcore Red Hat, that tells me horseshoe theory is real.
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Within all of this rant, there is no definition of leftist vs liberal. Liberal is not the opposite of populist (the two agree on many things). Bernie and the right agree on almost nothing (secure borders is about it).
 
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#662
#662
zeppelin128 said:
I have gone out of my way to describe those terms. I did it in my answer to your "asking bunch of questions" post.
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You’ve not. So I’ll try asking again:

What is the difference between a leftist and a liberal? Bernie believes in equality for all citizens, does he not?

On some issues Bernie is far more liberal than Pete (vaccines for example).

So what is your distinguishing criteria? What places Pete in the category of good liberal and Bernie in the category of evil leftist. And try to answer this time without policies they both support (Medicare for all or the green new deal) as your distinguishing criteria
 
#664
#664
Vol8188 said:
You’ve not. So I’ll try asking again:

What is the difference between a leftist and a liberal? Bernie believes in equality for all citizens, does he not?

On some issues Bernie is far more liberal than Pete (vaccines for example).

So what is your distinguishing criteria? What places Pete in the category of good liberal and Bernie in the category of evil leftist. And try to answer this time without policies they both support (Medicare for all or the green new deal) as your distinguishing criteria
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They. Did. Not. Support. The. Same. Policy.

This is getting old.
 
#667
#667
kiddiedoc said:
Yes. After being lauded as the rising superstar for the Left by basically every MSM outlet and liberal politician, she was awarded the Scarlet Letter for being falsely accused as a Russian co-op, since she opposed dumbass wars.
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When was she considered a rising star by everyone on the left and the media? She ran for president and immediately didn’t matter.
 
#670
#670
tvolsfan said:
When was she considered a rising star by everyone on the left and the media? She ran for president and immediately didn’t matter.
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She has been a VN darling for years now. Maybe they just want to bang her.

And keep your collective outrage in your pocket VN. I've been accused of the same with Pete.
 
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#671
#671
volfanhill said:
Her horrible horrible policies
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Her beliefs or her policies?

For example: her personal belief is that the average citizen doesn’t need an AR. Her belief is that the constitution overrules her personal beliefs. She believes that the constitution affirmed the 2a to include ARs. Her policy (votes) support the constitution over her personal views. She’s very much like Justin Amish in that they both limited themselves to stay within the law/constitution by voting against their personal beliefs to stay within the law. Both also worked extensively with the other party to find common ground. Oddly both are now out of politics
We need more of these types not less.
Hurrah for tribalism over facts
 
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#674
#674
zeppelin128 said:
She has been a VN darling for years now. Maybe they just want to bang her.

And keep your collective outrage in your pocket VN. I've been accused of the same with Pete.
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She's the type of politician that should exist on both sides. She was asked to tow the line by the megaparty and said she wouldn't. No one else on the left seems to have that kind of backbone

I believe you're being intentionally obtuse given your affinity for other megaparty members who lack her fortitude
 
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