Why Private Health Care doesn't work

#77
#77
utgibbs said:
The new part is the dominant culture regards it as a virtue. This is spoken openly and unashamedly in every corridor of power.

Past cultures have always regarded it as a sin. And rightly so.
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If we accept your premise here then you also have to admit that shirking personal responsibility and seeking payment/benefits from the government is also seen as a virtue where it once was a sin.
 
#78
#78
Lexvol said:
We aren't debating the consequences of greed (both good and bad). We are debating the novelty of greed. Nothing has changed about greed. Nothing. It is the same yesterday, today, and will be the same tomorrow.
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Novelty of greed as a virtue.
 
#82
#82
utgibbs said:
Novelty of greed as a virtue.
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I love how you throw these opinions out then pretend the are 100% lock facts.

Perhaps you are conflating striving for success (however defined) and greed?

Hell, the anger at Wall St in this country tells you greed is not considered a virtue.
 
#83
#83
Lexvol said:
The "party before constituents" model tells you everything you need to know. Hopefully this last election will turn the tide a bit, but I'm not holding my breath.
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There are three ways to eliminate a problem: solve, resolve, or dissolve.

Solve- you put a band-aid over it and hope it goes away.

Resolve- you fix the root causes so the problem actually does go away.

Dissolve- you remove the conditions that allow the problem to exist.


Since people are fallible, self serving, and even power hungry/greedy by nature, you would have to change human nature on a fundamental level to fix the problems in our gov't. Any time you concentrate that much power and money in one place... it will by and large attract the greediest, most self serving, least moral among us.

"Solving the problem" provides politicians cover... nothing more. It will always grow their power at the expense of others.

The only way to "fix" Washington is to start dissolving the problems. Therefore the ONLY people we should trust in politics are those who by word and deed show they are serious about shrinking the size and scope of gov't.
 
#84
#84
utgibbs said:
Novelty of greed as a virtue.
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Greed isn't a "virtue" whether it is exhibited by someone at Goldman or one of the millions who vote for liberals because they've been promised "free stuff" paid for by "the rich".
 
#85
#85
Let's take UTGibbs assertions at face value:

1. Government should run HC in a single payer system.
2. Greed is now viewed as a virtue by those in power

Conclusion: Our HC system will be turned over from 100s of greedy businesses to 1 giant greedy organization with no competition.

Sounds wonderful.
 
#86
#86
utgibbs said:
The new part is the dominant culture regards it as a virtue. This is spoken openly and unashamedly in every corridor of power.

Past cultures have always regarded it as a sin. And rightly so.
Click to expand...

someone watched the new wall street movie.
 
#87
#87
sjt18 said:
Greed isn't a "virtue" whether it is exhibited by someone at Goldman or one of the millions who vote for liberals because they've been promised "free stuff" paid for by "the rich".
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the question is when does it become greedy? is it greedy i want the best educaton for my children and therefore i might take a job that makes more money than one i am in love with? bill gates has given tens of billions to charity. is he greedy? who decides? who is the victim? the middle class? horse****
 
#89
#89
droski said:
the question is when does it become greedy? is it greedy i want the best educaton for my children and therefore i might take a job that makes more money than one i am in love with? bill gates has given tens of billions to charity. is he greedy? who decides? who is the victim? the middle class? horse****
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The greed silliness us the same senselessness that drives the idiotic income disparity stats as a measure of something. Vote gathering, but otherwise worthless. People are inherently self interested and have always been. That self interests manifests in many ways, greed being one of them.
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#91
#91
droski said:
the question is when does it become greedy? is it greedy i want the best educaton for my children and therefore i might take a job that makes more money than one i am in love with? bill gates has given tens of billions to charity. is he greedy? who decides? who is the victim? the middle class? horse****
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What is "the best education?" The education of the mine? Rote standardized testing? Education that makes you nothing but a cog in the wheel (but perhaps well paid)?

Your question regarding "what is greed?" is much more pertinent, and worthy of discussion. In fact, it might be THE most pertinent question in our world today.
 
#92
#92
sjt18 said:
Greed isn't a "virtue" whether it is exhibited by someone at Goldman or one of the millions who vote for liberals because they've been promised "free stuff" paid for by "the rich".
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Indeed.

But it has been promoted as a virtue ad nauseum over the last 40 years.
 
#94
#94
utgibbs said:
It is absolutely critical. I'm sorry if you can't understand.
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To what?

The idea of it being a novel virtue didn't create it, and it doesn't sustain it or make it grow.

And that is even irrelevant if greed is the issue because you would have to take man out of the picture to change it. That includes the government that is made up by such.
 
#95
#95
utgibbs said:
What is "the best education?" The education of the mine? Rote standardized testing? Education that makes you nothing but a cog in the wheel (but perhaps well paid)?

Your question regarding "what is greed?" is much more pertinent, and worthy of discussion. In fact, it might be THE most pertinent question in our world today.
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education drives the economy and the growth of the human race. education has made us live longer and better than any generation in human kind. i suggest the next time you end up in the hospital you can explain to your doctor how useless his degree is.
 
#96
#96
utgibbs said:
Your question regarding "what is greed?" is much more pertinent, and worthy of discussion. In fact, it might be THE most pertinent question in our world today.
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your premise above assumes the meaning has changed. you've been arguing that the acceptance or reaction to greed has changed earlier.

we cannot evaluate your claim that the acceptance of something has changed if too you are claiming that the thing itself has changed.
 
#99
#99
volinbham said:
Let's take UTGibbs assertions at face value:

1. Government should run HC in a single payer system.
2. Greed is now viewed as a virtue by those in power

Conclusion: Our HC system will be turned over from 100s of greedy businesses to 1 giant greedy organization with no competition.

Sounds wonderful.
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It is wonderfully more efficient, I agree. And the data is conclusive and unambiguous.

You seem dangerously close (well, you've crossed the line) into proving my points before Christmas regarding authentic democracy. I can always count on y'all to prove my points for me. Why? Because the real world is the final arbiter. Thankee :hi:
 
#100
#100
droski said:
education drives the economy and the growth of the human race. education has made us live longer and better than any generation in human kind. i suggest the next time you end up in the hospital you can explain to your doctor how useless his degree is.
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But he's a well paid cog in the wheel!
 
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