Why Private Health Care doesn't work

#151
#151
KB5252 said:
If you could show me one example of something as large and widespread as SPHCS being run by the government while exhibiting the qualities of simplicity and effectiveness you would have my full attention.
Click to expand...

the only way the other countries have gotten anywhere close to our cost of healthcare is by restricting expensive and cutting edge technology. i follow a company that makes robotic operating systems. every major hospital in the US has one. only 14 have them in europe. the cost comparison liberals use assume that it's similar because of the universal healthcare option makes it more efficient which is just idiotic. it's like arguing public schools are more efficient than private ones because they cost less.
 
#152
#152
droski said:
the only way the other countries have gotten anywhere close to our cost of healthcare is by restricting expensive and cutting edge technology. i follow a company that makes robotic operating systems. every major hospital in the US has one. only 14 have them in europe. the cost comparison liberals use assume that it's similar because of the universal healthcare option which is just idiotic.
Click to expand...

I meant by our own government which is the only example that matters in this case.
 
#153
#153
lawgator1 said:
The typical thread in this forum has a 0.0003 % chance of informing anyone of anything and a 0.000000000001% chance of changing someone's mind.

This thread will make those numbers look astronomically high.
Click to expand...

and this post just made them look higher :)
 
#154
#154
utgibbs said:
Oh, I don't know. Ayn Rand acolyte - she only wrote a whole philosophy on the subject. Maybe y'all think selfishness does not equal greed?

:facepalm:

This is simply quibbling over what has been standard orthodoxy for 40 years, brilliantly encapsulated by Greenspan's late confessional.
Click to expand...

you are sounding more and more like the black knight

holy_grail_ronaldgrant-2878.jpg
 
#156
#156
utgibbs said:
Maybe y'all think selfishness does not equal greed?
Click to expand...

greed
noun
excessive or rapacious desire, esp. for wealth or possessions.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
selfishness
–adjective
1.
devoted to or caring only for oneself; concerned primarily with one's own interests, benefits, welfare, etc., regardless of others.
2.
characterized by or manifesting concern or care only for oneself: selfish motives.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would absolutely say that greed and selfishness are not the same thing. Mainly, greed is a desire and selfishness is an action.

Also, selfishness is to the main character, whereas greed could be lustful to any other character or object.

You can exhibit greed (desire) to help someone else, but it is rather hard to exhibit selfishness to help another, especially if it doesn't help you first.

Selfishness =/= Greed
 
#157
#157
lawgator1 said:
The typical thread in this forum has a 0.0003 % chance of informing anyone of anything and a 0.000000000001% chance of changing someone's mind.

This thread will make those numbers look astronomically high.
Click to expand...

It was a decent thread till it got derailed.
 
#160
#160
I think I understand the disconnect. Actually Lexvol brought it up, and he has been noble in his posting.

Greed in people has not changed, but it has been regarded as a virtue for the last 40 years. The article has the very phrase in the title because it is received wisdom of the last 40 years. The article actually starts from the perspective that everyone already knows this.

The quote volinbham has reposted is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. Greed HAS NOT changed, but how we regard greed HAS. And this is exactly why we have more avenues to express it. This is EXACTLY what it means to change greed from a vice to a virtue. Greed does not change, but the ways in which we can act upon it have in very big ways.

This is exactly why it was so important to stress Greed as a virtue rather than greed itself.
 
#161
#161
I would hope most people want healthcare to be available to the highest number of people, at the lowest price possible, and with the best care given. The questions should be how heavily we weigh the three options, and what system best achieves the goal. Unfortunately, it is easier to scream about how the gubmint ruins everything and other bumper sticker slogans than to have an actual discussion.
 
#162
#162
utvolpj said:
the OP posted his typical troll thread and you claim it got derailed? Sorry
Click to expand...

The typical VN moderator and the usual member of the GoF (kptvol) proceed to derail a good thread, and then blame it on the OP.

I have done nothing but try to answer questions on the debate, especially regarding this Greenspan article, a link requested by droski.

You and kpt in your typical fashion are the primary agents of derailment.

Get over it. Fulmer was a better coach than Kiffin. Single-payer health care is more efficient. The government IS more efficient than the private sector in numerous examples. There are market failures. The government is needed to create markets. Get over it, you lost.
 
#163
#163
utgibbs said:
The typical VN moderator and the usual member of the GoF (kptvol) proceed to derail a good thread, and then blame it on the OP.
Click to expand...

it was a crappy troll thread like every one you post. No one had to derail it because you made that happen when you clicked 'submit new thread'
 
#164
#164
Ed12111 said:
I would hope most people want healthcare to be available to the highest number of people, at the lowest price possible, and with the best care given. The questions should be how heavily we weigh the three options, and what system best achieves the goal. Unfortunately, it is easier to scream about how the gubmint ruins everything and other bumper sticker slogans than to have an actual discussion.
Click to expand...

Your criteria is spot-on.

I think one system has proven most efficient, and the data is in. Although I would never dismiss a redesign, I don't think Obamacare is the kind of redesign needed.

Nice post. Whenever I post, some VN moderators and KPT will attempt to derail. That's just how they roll.
 
#166
#166
I think it's pretty obvious as to why this board isn't going to have an honest discussion. It's very difficult to objectively look at the facts and come up with a case for a non-public system.
 
#169
#169
Ed12111 said:
I would hope most people want healthcare to be available to the highest number of people, at the lowest price possible, and with the best care given. The questions should be how heavily we weigh the three options, and what system best achieves the goal. Unfortunately, it is easier to scream about how the gubmint ruins everything and other bumper sticker slogans than to have an actual discussion.
Click to expand...

Just as you claim greed has become a virtue the idea that government has become a wasteful, bloated entity incapable of efficiency is an accepted fact. Actually there is much more conclusive evidence for the latter than their is for the former.
 
#170
#170
Ed12111 said:
I think it's pretty obvious as to why this board isn't going to have an honest discussion. It's very difficult to objectively look at the facts and come up with a case for a non-public system.
Click to expand...

not true. We've had plenty of good discussions about it. Thing is, when iamgibbs comes in with his ridiculous assertions it turns into a mess. Doesn't matter the subject since it turns out the same way every time

Ed12111 said:
Case in point.
Click to expand...

I'll say it again, you have no clue
 
#171
#171
Ed12111 said:
I think it's pretty obvious as to why this board isn't going to have an honest discussion. It's very difficult to objectively look at the facts and come up with a case for a non-public system.
Click to expand...

There are facts to support a privatized system as well, specifically autonomy of the physician. Simply because opinion does not follow another's opinion does not mean the discussion is irrational.

My main concern with a public system is simply this: physician autonomy. Period.

Governmental regulation, influence, policy and what have you limit a physician's autonomy, which is philosophically invalid.

There is much more to health care than availability, afford-ability and standard of care.
 
#172
#172
KB5252 said:
Just as you claim greed has become a virtue the idea that government has become a wasteful, bloated entity incapable of efficiency is an accepted fact. Actually there is much more conclusive evidence for the latter than their is for the former.
Click to expand...

Just as I claim? I haven't claimed anything one way or the other. "An accepted fact" Well, with a case like that.
 
#173
#173
Ed12111 said:
I think it's pretty obvious as to why this board isn't going to have an honest discussion. It's very difficult to objectively look at the facts and come up with a case for a non-public system.
Click to expand...

It depends on which facts you accept and which you ignore, there is very good reason to believe that government run health care will not be run efficiently, the models so many point to are in countries where taxes are being taxed and shortfalls in funding are commonplace.
 
#174
#174
utvolpj said:
not true. We've had plenty of good discussions about it. Thing is, when iamgibbs comes in with his ridiculous assertions it turns into a mess. Doesn't matter the subject since it turns out the same way every time



I'll say it again, you have no clue
Click to expand...

You're complaining about it being a crappy thread then when I try to get it on topic you start a pissing match over whether people like the OP. I don't know your history with the OP, but does it matter?
 
#175
#175
Ed12111 said:
Just as I claim? I haven't claimed anything one way or the other. "An accepted fact" Well, with a case like that.
Click to expand...

You stated greed being a virtue was accepted fact. I retorted with my own accepted fact that is much more widely accepted, it has been demonstrated time and again.
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top