Why Reality Blows Up Anti-Abortion Rhetoric

#176
#176
MontyPython said:
Not sure I understand what you're asking, but no, I'm not good with universal rights to an abortion. But, if a child is found to have horrific problems (e.g. Down's Syndrome) at a very late stage, or if the mother is at serious risk to die, then yes, in certain circumstances a late-term abortion seems reasonable to me.
Click to expand...

How can you have it both ways? How can you argue some kids don’t have a right to live inside the womb but others do? Isn’t your entire argument that the government doesn’t recognize the rights of a child until they’re born so they have none?

Because what you’re saying here is closer to my views. That the child does have rights and that you can’t just elect to kill a child for no reason.
 
#177
#177
utvolpj said:
Because I've answered it so many times. When a fetus is viable on it's own. You also have to be able to understand when testing can be done on a fetus. 9-10wks minimum and even that is risky. But it's worth it if you've got known issues (thanks to the us govt)

But yes, you did say 6wks was a viable fetus. Maybe not what you meant but it's what you posted.
Click to expand...

A 5 year old isn't viable on it's own.
 
  • Like
Reactions: whodeycin85, NorthDallas40 and Vol8188
#178
#178
utvolpj said:
Because I've answered it so many times. When a fetus is viable on it's own. You also have to be able to understand when testing can be done on a fetus. 9-10wks minimum and even that is risky. But it's worth it if you've got known issues (thanks to the us govt)

But yes, you did say 6wks was a viable fetus. Maybe not what you meant but it's what you posted.
Click to expand...

Please quote me on that. I recall saying 6 weeks is when a heart beat occurs and that’s how we determine life.

So to clarify you are okay pushing your views on a woman if the fetus is viable, meaning you oppose late term elective abortions?

Idk why you couldn’t have said that 3 pages ago
 
#179
#179
hog88 said:
You were completely wrong with most everything you listed in your OP.
Click to expand...

*sigh*

Been down this road with you so many times, Hog.

Here's how this works:
I post something.
You say, "NUhhh UHHHH!!"
I say, "Yep, for realz!!!"
You say, "Nope, you're a big liar!"
Et Cetera, Et Cetera, Et Cetera Ad Nauseum.

/end thread

(PS There's a big blank space beneath here where you can actually express your opinion regarding why/how I'm "completely wrong with most everything listed").
 
#180
#180
Vol8188 said:
How can you have it both ways? How can you argue some kids don’t have a right to live inside the womb but others do? Isn’t your entire argument that the government doesn’t recognize the rights of a child until they’re born so they have none?

Because what you’re saying here is closer to my views. That the child does have rights and that you can’t just elect to kill a child for no reason.
Click to expand...

Well, yeah, I think an unborn CHILD has rights, but I also think that the parents have rights, too, particularly in instances of rape, incest, unhealthy children and/or unhealthy mother. The real question in my mind remains WHEN the fetus becomes a child.
 
#181
#181
MontyPython said:
*sigh*

Been down this road with you so many times, Hog.

Here's how this works:
I post something.
You say, "NUhhh UHHHH!!"
I say, "Yep, for realz!!!"
You say, "Nope, you're a big liar!"
Et Cetera, Et Cetera, Et Cetera Ad Nauseum.

/end thread

(PS There's a big blank space beneath here where you can actually express your opinion regarding why/how I'm "completely wrong with most everything listed").
Click to expand...

Again, what rights are the unborn denied that a newborn has?
 
  • Like
Reactions: NorthDallas40
#182
#182
MontyPython said:
Well, yeah, I think an unborn CHILD has rights, but I also think that the parents have rights, too, particularly in instances of rape, incest, unhealthy children and/or unhealthy mother. The real question in my mind remains WHEN the fetus becomes a child.
Click to expand...

You wrote a 500 word essay proclaiming an unborn child has no rights. Does an unborn child have a right to life?

In a world of morning after pills why would you need more than 6 weeks to get an abortion after an event of rape or incest? The rape/incest argument is really just not on the board given morning after pill and multiple weeks
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Rickyvol77, Orangeburst and hog88
#183
#183
Vol8188 said:
Please quote me on that. I recall saying 6 weeks is when a heart beat occurs and that’s how we determine life.

So to clarify you are okay pushing your views on a woman if the fetus is viable, meaning you oppose late term elective abortions?

Idk why you couldn’t have said that 3 pages ago
Click to expand...
Where have I ever pushed my views on any woman? That's the point you're missing
 
#184
#184
utvolpj said:
Where have I ever pushed my views on any woman? That's the point you're missing
Click to expand...

So you are okay with the legal system allowing for an elective abortion at 9 months? You find that preferable to "pushing your views on any women"?

Is that correct? Idk why we have to keep going back and forth with you being vague on this..

Why do you refuse to answer this?
 
Last edited:
#185
#185
utvolpj said:
Because I've answered it so many times. When a fetus is viable on it's own. You also have to be able to understand when testing can be done on a fetus. 9-10wks minimum and even that is risky. But it's worth it if you've got known issues (thanks to the us govt)

But yes, you did say 6wks was a viable fetus. Maybe not what you meant but it's what you posted.
Click to expand...

I'm still waiting for you to either admit you are wrong or quote me saying 6 weeks is viable
 
#187
#187
ClearwaterVol said:
Citizenship?
Click to expand...
That’s the obvious one. We are splitting hairs and going thru mental gymnastics to separate “citizen” from “human”. I’d argue humans have all of those inalienable rights that any other human has. However our citizens have those rights bestowed on them by the US constitution. The latter encompass those rights granted by the government and are thus limitable… and as such aren’t really rights at all.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Orangeburst
#188
#188
utvolpj said:
Where have I ever pushed my views on any woman? That's the point you're missing
Click to expand...

The point you seem to be missing is that to be consistent with that statement you have to proclaim you are okay with it being legal for a 9 month elective abortion to occur. Those are you only two options.

Option 1: Enforce some level of a standard on women

Option 2: accept that 9 month elective abortions will be legal.

So it's option 2? Idk why you continue avoiding this
 
#189
#189
I’ve come to the realization that the hard core Pro-Choice camp is a lot like the hard core Pro-2A camp.
 
#192
#192
NorthDallas40 said:
Probably. But I’d submit the pro 2A camp can actually point to constitutional protections of the enumerated right being debated.
Click to expand...
Oh I wasn’t referring to the constitutional differences in 2A and Abortion.

The mindset of both camps is almost identical.
 
#195
#195
Vol8188 said:
The point you seem to be missing is that to be consistent with that statement you have to proclaim you are okay with it being legal for a 9 month elective abortion to occur. Those are you only two options.

Option 1: Enforce some level of a standard on women

Option 2: accept that 9 month elective abortions will be legal.

So it's option 2? Idk why you continue avoiding this
Click to expand...
That's a false choice. What someone else does in no way must match what I believe. I just don't have to want laws to force others. It's that simple
 
#196
#196
utvolpj said:
That's a false choice. What someone else does in no way must match what I believe. I just don't have to want laws to force others. It's that simple
Click to expand...

It’s not a false choice at all. I’m not proclaiming your views cause them to have an abortion. But your views are allowing it.

If you don’t enforce any standard than you’re allowing an abortion at 9 months to occur without any legal repercussion.

What’s false about that?
 
#197
#197
utvolpj said:
That's a false choice. What someone else does in no way must match what I believe. I just don't have to want laws to force others. It's that simple
Click to expand...

I’m not proclaiming their actions have to align with your beliefs.
 
#198
#198
hog88 said:
Then I missed it.
Click to expand...
Those that fervently believe in the 2A and our constitutional right to bear arms (of which I am one), will never, ever, ever give an inch to those that would seek to restrict gun rights.

The 2A folks know, rightly, that the “other side” has no intention of stopping. Ever.

It’s a similar dynamic with Pro-Choice. The reason they won’t come out and denounce “9 month abortion”. They can’t accept any restriction, at all. They know, rightly, that the “other side” has no intention of stopping. Ever.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Vol8188 and hog88
#199
#199
Vol8188 said:
I'm still waiting for you to either admit you are wrong or quote me saying 6 weeks is viable
Click to expand...
here

Vol8188 said:
We both agree the fetus is viable. It has a heartbeat. And you terminate that?
Click to expand...

utvolpj said:
No, we don't agree that a 6wk fetus is viable. I'm not sure anyone does. You also assume I define abortion as murder which is incorrect
Click to expand...
Vol8188 said:
We can disagree about six weeks but unless you’re really sick at some point you’d have to agree it’s murder. Do you not?
Click to expand...
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top