Why slow it down????

#51
#51
jjay2518 said:
Why are you acting like anyone is arguing with you about this? Yes, people can watch and see that the offense flows better when we're up tempo. However, points per game is only a slightly more reliable predictor of pace of play than something as subjective as watching and getting a feeling. Your premise is most likely right, but the best way to make your point would be to correlate possessions per game.
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Bto is suggesting 2 years worth of data means nothing and the only difference in the higher scoring games is shooting percentage while ignoring the fact that teams might just shoot better in a higher paced game.
 
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#52
#52
bleedingTNorange said:
We put up 43 points in the second half and were still outscored, that's 86 points on the game. I'm not sure how many points people expect us to score, but now we're saying what, 90+?

.
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Comical post. Very inaccurate




Did we score 86???


If so we would have won easily but instead we played a stagnant style of half court offense the first 10min of the 1st half.


We scored 63 in case the facts get in your way
 
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#53
#53
UneducatedGuess said:
Good post. Martin is a GREAT basketball mind. So was Buzz Peterson.

The problem is that kids want to run and they don't want to slow it down. And neither do the fans. Our fan base doesn't really know good basketball when we see it. It's just the truth. We are driven by excitement. This grind-it-out style is a style the Big 10 loves and appreciates.

I've always felt that Martin would struggle here for that very reason. Tennessee doesn't connect with this slow it down, fundamentally sound, style of ball. Martin will do great when Purdue finally hires him back. He can recruit, he understands the game, and he gets Big 10 culture.
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I know good basketball when I see it regardless if it's a halfcourt game or full court sprint and I have seen too much offensive basketball that is flat out offensive to those that do know the game.
And watch Indiana last year. They were big 10 and far from grinding it out. Mich st doesn't grind it out. They attack feverishly and early.
Uneducated guess with some early uneducated guesses.
 
#54
#54
BruinVol said:
Bto is suggesting 2 years worth of date means nothing and the only difference in the higher scoring games is shooting percentage while ignoring the fact that teams might just shoot better in a higher paced game.
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Nobody said that shooting percentage was the only thing that affected points per game. He was making the point that a stat like points per game is affected by other factors than just pace of play. You breakdown of points per game points towards there being a similar correlation based on pace of play but doesn't explicitly prove it by itself.

I think it would be really interesting to see CCM's record vs. possessions per game because there could be something there, but I don't have a kenpom subscription.
 
#55
#55
bleedingTNorange said:
We put up 43 points in the second half and were still outscored, that's 86 points on the game. I'm not sure how many points people expect us to score, but now we're saying what, 90+?

This reminds me of the beginning of Martin's first season. We went out and tried to run, we were putting up points against Memphis, Duke, Oakland, Austin Peay.....one problem though, they were putting up more points than we were.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but Martin has flat out said, he will push it so long as it doesn't hurt his defense....we all know he's defense first. I could care less if we run or not, I just want to win, 21-20 is fine by me so long as we have 21.

I doubt Wisconsin fans were complaining about beating Florida the other night, even though they only scored in the 50s.
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well, I continue to keep it simple. When we play with pace we win more than when we don't. When we walk it up and get caught in a halfcourt game, we lose games we should've won.
I don't care about Wisconsin fans. They are frozen and drunk all basketball season anyway.
 
#56
#56
BruinVol said:
We played much faster with Barton in the game IMO.

He played mostly the entire second half.

Regardless one game isn't enough data to consider but 2 years Is more than enough
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Well there's other posters saying we didn't really play faster, but you're saying we played much faster, so which is it?

That's why I said possessions per game is the only stat that truly will tell if we played more uptempo or not.
 
#57
#57
Posessions per 40 minutes for the last few seasons:

vs Xavier: Not updated yet.
2012-13: 64.1 (20-13)
2011-12: 66.5 (19-15)
2010-11: 67.6
2009-10: 70
2008-09: 71.6
2007-08: 73

Points per game for the last few seasons:

2012-13: 66.3
2011-12: 68.8
2010-11: 69.9
2009-10: 73.5
2008-09: 78.4
2007-08: 81.8

Source: Tennessee Volunteers Team Stats - College Basketball - StatSheet.com
 
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#58
#58
bleedingTNorange said:
I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but Martin has flat out said, he will push it so long as it doesn't hurt his defense....we all know he's defense first. I could care less if we run or not, I just want to win, 21-20 is fine by me so long as we have 21.
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I am saying it is flat out wrong to have an approach that says we will push it only if our defense isn't effected.

We have a very talented group that will simply out athlete teams if given the opportunity
 
#59
#59
BruinVol said:
Bto is suggesting 2 years worth of data means nothing and the only difference in the higher scoring games is shooting percentage while ignoring the fact that teams might just shoot better in a higher paced game.
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Why are you getting so bent out of shape. I'm trying to have an actual discussion with you (my first mistake), and you seem to be taking it personally that I'm not agreeing with your research.

It's a fact that scoring more points doesn't necessarily mean we are playing more uptempo, I don't know how else I can say that. Now if you want to change your point of this thread to simply, if we score more we win, go for it, but that seems like common knowledge.
 
#60
#60
BruinVol said:
Comical post. Very inaccurate




Did we score 86???


If so we would have won easily but instead we played a stagnant style of half court offense the first 10min of the 1st half.


We scored 63 in case the facts get in your way
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So you ignored the fact that we put up 43 points in a half and were still outscored up until 1 minute left in the game?
 
#61
#61
jjay2518 said:
Nobody said that shooting percentage was the only thing that affected points per game. He was making the point that a stat like points per game is affected by other factors than just pace of play. You breakdown of points per game points towards there being a similar correlation based on pace of play but doesn't explicitly prove it by itself.

I think it would be really interesting to see CCM's record vs. possessions per game because there could be something there, but I don't have a kenpom subscription.
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Bingo
 
#62
#62
Spartacavolus said:
Uneducated guess with some early uneducated guesses.
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Guess #1 (same as last year). If this team tries to control the tempo (slow) we will not make the NCAA

Guess #2 If this team does not make the NCAA tournament, Coach Martin will have other opportunities elsewhere
 
#63
#63
Spartacavolus said:
well, I continue to keep it simple. When we play with pace we win more than when we don't. When we walk it up and get caught in a halfcourt game, we lose games we should've won.
I don't care about Wisconsin fans. They are frozen and drunk all basketball season anyway.
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Lmao touché

Like I said I don't care what we score, I don't really care how fast we play....I would rather win 55-53 than lose 88-85.
 
#64
#64
bleedingTNorange said:
So you ignored the fact that we put up 43 points in a half and were still outscored up until 1 minute left in the game?
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You think Xavier or any other teams on our schedule not named kentucky or florida can withstand on a consistent basis our athleticism for 40 minutes if half season martin lets our guys use that advantage????
 
#65
#65
BruinVol said:
I am saying it is flat out wrong to have an approach that says we will push it only if our defense isn't effected.

We have a very talented group that will simply out athlete teams if given the opportunity
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As evidenced by us being beat in the second half even though by your own admission played much more uptempo?
 
#66
#66
Spartacavolus said:
I know good basketball when I see it regardless if it's a halfcourt game or full court sprint and I have seen too much offensive basketball that is flat out offensive to those that do know the game.
And watch Indiana last year. They were big 10 and far from grinding it out. Mich st doesn't grind it out. They attack feverishly and early.
Uneducated guess with some early uneducated guesses.
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Yea I was quite impressed with Indiana's performance in the NCAA tourney. They scored 50 against Syracuse in that a===== whipping. Scored 58 in the Temple win.
Defense and rebounding win championships and this will never change.
 
#68
#68
bleedingTNorange said:
Lmao touché

Like I said I don't care what we score, I don't really care how fast we play....I would rather win 55-53 than lose 88-85.
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Again you are making my point.

55-53 type games we are 17-15 in(less than 130 total points)

Is that really a winning % you are happy with??
 
#69
#69
BruinVol said:
You think Xavier or any other teams on our schedule not named kentucky or florida can withstand on a consistent basis our athleticism for 40 minutes if half season martin lets our guys use that advantage????
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I'm not sure. If you think that our roster has the only boys in the country that can go out and play a 40 minute game and go play a pick up game immediately afterwards you're mistaken though.

All we can use for evidence is xavier....we played slow in the first half and got beat. We played in your words, much more uptempo in the second half, and still got beat.

You want my opinion? I think our defense is worse than our offense at the moment.
 
#70
#70
#72
#72
BruinVol said:
43-40

Another fact you seem to be to stubborn to see
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Like I said, if you wanna include the last minute that turned into them shooting free throws and is bombing 3s go ahead, it makes you look foolish. You and I both know the final minute of that game wasn't how a normal flow of a game would've gone...we played it your way and were outscored for 19 minutes in the second half.
 
#73
#73
BruinVol said:
You think Xavier or any other teams on our schedule not named kentucky or florida can withstand on a consistent basis our athleticism for 40 minutes if half season martin lets our guys use that advantage????
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Did you watch the game? X is a half court team. Mack was not going to allow Tennessee to push this game in the 70's or 80's. He knew Tennessee would run them out of the gym. They shortened the shot clock in the second half on each possession. Both teams were very efficient in the second half excluding free throw shooting. Tennessee must improve their post defense immediately. Atrocious performance.
 
#74
#74
bleedingTNorange said:
I'm not sure. If you think that our roster has the only boys in the country that can go out and play a 40 minute game and go play a pick up game immediately afterwards you're mistaken though.

All we can use for evidence is xavier....we played slow in the first half and got beat. We played in your words, much more uptempo in the second half, and still got beat.

You want my opinion? I think our defense is worse than our offense at the moment.
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We lost because of the 1st half IMO. Clearly most here would agree with that.

Our defense was pretty good in the 1st half. Our offense was atrocious especially the first 10min which also happened to be when our defense was best
 
#75
#75
bleedingTNorange said:
Like I said, if you wanna include the last minute that turned into them shooting free throws and is bombing 3s go ahead, it makes you look foolish. You and I both know the final minute of that game wasn't how a normal flow of a game would've gone...we played it your way and were outscored for 19 minutes in the second half.
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A half is 20min long but another fact that seems to me missing from you
 
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