Will Butch Jones be a better coach this year?

#51
#51
I would imagine being able to review game film of your players playing in your system will be invaluable to a coach going into year 2. I don't know if it makes a better coach but could surely make them look like one.
 
#52
#52
tm3 said:
Saban, spurrier, franklin, miles, and a few others would have figured out wins against Vandy and UF.
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Gee. Then you would think that Saban could have figured out a way to beat La-Monroe his first season at Bama.
 
#54
#54
orange parmejohn said:
Will a year of battle, help CBJ better prepare for games, make better adjustments, and generally be a better football coach or as with Dooley, do you get what you get and live with it?
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In the SEC, having talent at all positions is 50%+ of coaching "success". You can be a great coach on paper, but in the SEC, it's the horses on the field that win the game.

With the talent influx of the past two years, I think we will be seeing a noticeable difference in the team's success, even if CBJ doesn't become a "better" coach (whatever that means).
 
#60
#60
GAVol said:
Yep... He didn't get a lot of heat for the loss, but I thought he coached and play called an awful game against us.
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He has refortified his legacy the last few years where one of those brain fart weekends gets overlooked. Especially given his location. Had he been at UF and dropped that one it would be viewed very different.
 
#61
#61
If Butch can keep getting some of the top talent hes going to be in good shape in a couple of seasons. We as Volnation just need to be patient. He is going to get us there.
 
#62
#62
sjt18 said:
Oregon may have won because they had more talent and were fully implemented in their system... that didn't cause a complete blowout.


The Vandy loss and possibly the UF loss were due to coaching decisions.


It was a coaching decision to stick with some of the OL's even after Jones openly expressed dissatisfaction with the way they finished blocks. It was a coaching decision to play McCullers and Hood when this year's projected starting DL indicates they would rather play smaller and faster on the DL.

I am willing to give him this benefit of the doubt. Maybe he was playing the seniors while putting extra development time into the returning players. He appears to have done that with Jackson and Maggitt for sure. Both could have helped in critical ways last fall. Maybe it does take a year for the players to become comfortable and sync in his system.


There are LOTS of coaches who would have done better in terms of wins and losses. Fulmer would have and few here have been rougher on Fulmer than me. He would have just "thrown it all at them" to see what would stick then he would have gone with it.

One of the things I like best and take the most hope in concerning Jones is that he seems to build his system from the ground up. The team and players have to master one level before moving on to the next.

I guess if I had to summarize it would be that Jones seems to mold/recruit/coach/develop players to the strength of his system while guys like Fulmer (and there are many of them who succeed) mold their system to the strength of their players. When you say that Chaney or even Cut has an "offensive system"... it is a lot looser than what we would call Jones' O system. Theirs are much more variable.

I cannot adequately express how much I prefer what I "think" Jones is doing over the way Fulmer did it... I hope it works.
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1. Oregon blowout: Two words. TEAM SPEED.

2. Vandy and Florida: The Vandy loss I blame on lack of execution. You might be right as it relates to Florida but only with regard to leaving Peterman in too long.

3. Offensive line: Who did we have to replace them?

4. Fulmer would have done better: Please watch the 2008 season again.

I just feel like CBJ was fighting with a handicap last season. The Vols were slow as molasses and had very little depth. I'm not sure there is any way to scheme around BOTH of those issues.
 
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#63
#63
tm3 said:
Saban, spurrier, franklin, miles, and a few others would have figured out wins against Vandy and UF.
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Saban, Miles, Franklin, Spurrier would have figured out a USCe win against UT! Spurrier, oh wait ...

:loco:
 
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#64
#64
KBVol said:
Let's see if Butch can win a natl title in his third.
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So will you consider Butch a failure if he doesn't? Very, very few coaches have accomplished that feat. If that is your expectation you might be better of as a Bama fan.
 
#65
#65
I think the bottom line is the coaching staff needs to do the best work of their careers this year and get this team into a bowl game. There are too many variables to draw a distinct line between coaching and talent but the talent this year, good or bad, needs to be well coached.
 
#66
#66
lonelawyer said:
1. Oregon blowout: Two words. TEAM SPEED.
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Sorry but no. UT was not the slowest team to play Oregon last fall. You can do alot by just having guys in position and by gameplanning. Wilcox virtually stifled a BETTER Oregon O for a half in '10. Their staff stated that the rain delay allowed them to figure out what UT was doing and adjust to it. That might have been a much closer game without that delay. He didn't have any better team speed than last year. UT certainly wasn't the slowest or most disadvantaged O that Oregon played last year.

2. Vandy and Florida: The Vandy loss I blame on lack of execution. You might be right as it relates to Florida but only with regard to leaving Peterman in too long.
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Look. I don't even expect coaches to be perfect... but it is ludicrous to avoid placing any blame on them at all. Vandy was a VERY poorly coached game from the strategic level. You could say that "Well the D held them but that's not altogether true". Knowing that he had a roster disadvantage, Franklin threw that stupid WR screen about 100 times. UT NEVER stopped it.

Both Franklin and Jones mentioned "managing" the game as their strategy. That one play that UT never adjusted to allowed Franklin to do it.

That should have never been Jones' strategy from the start. He had the better roster and Franklin knew it.

3. Offensive line: Who did we have to replace them?
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Crowder for absolute certain. I'm not sure that Kerbyson wouldn't have been an upgrade over Bullard. SOMEONE needed to come in and show the others how to finish a block. In his few opportunities, Crowder did that.

I remember one sickening time vs Mizzou where 2 or 3 UT OL's were standing within 5 yds of a tackle watching the guys they should have been blocking making a tackle. MU on the other hand had less OL talent but they played a half count past the whistle on every single snap.

4. Fulmer would have done better: Please watch the 2008 season again.
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No need. Fulmer's philosophy was to adapt to his players' strengths. The disconnect between him and Clawson was that DC thinks more like Jones. Unfortunately for Dave, he thought Fulmer's leash was longer than it was and that he would have time to install and man his system.

I just feel like CBJ was fighting with a handicap last season. The Vols were slow as molasses and had very little depth. I'm not sure there is any way to scheme around BOTH of those issues.
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Speed was not the catch all that so many of you want to claim. It was an issue at times but it comes WAY short of explaining everything. Brewer nor Sapp were slow. UT was slow on the DL. The secondary was not particularly slow at least compared to some other SEC secondaries like Mizzou and Vandy that performed better.

I HOPE that some of what we saw was intentional... that Jones sticks with his way of doing things even if the players do not yet do it very well. If so, we should see noticeable improvement in the returning players THIS fall. A guy like Fulmer would have adjusted his way of doing things to accommodate what the players did well. He always did and was always clear that he did it that way.

Again, if I am correct in my assessment of Jones, I think his way is vastly superior. But it COULD explain some of what we saw last year that just looked like poor coaching and preparation.
 
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#67
#67
Jones is much better than Dooley. To me he is better than kiffen. Kiffen had a better roster to deal with it. Although I will say we should have beaten Florida and Vandy. With that said, he gets a learning curve do to the fact he beat a ranked team which no of us would have thought in his first year and almost beat Georgia. That's the best we have seen in a while.
 
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#69
#69
Crazy Ivan said:
So will you consider Butch a failure if he doesn't? Very, very few coaches have accomplished that feat. If that is your expectation you might be better of as a Bama fan.
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Not at all. If he can get us back to being competitive in all our games, win 8-9 games, and continue recruiting like a boss then I'll be one happy little Vol fan.

I responded to a guy taking a shot at Saban because he lost to Louisiana Monroe or somebody his first year. The guy's won 3 freaking national titles and he's talking smack about a bad loss in his first year? I just get irritated with guys talking crap about a guy/team when they have no leg to stand on. Talking crap about Saban right now is absolutely ridiculous IMO. It's one of the reasons I loathe arrogant Vandy fans.....they talk complete BS to us after losing 3 of the last 33 games. Just stupid and one of my pet peeves....I don't get it.
 
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#70
#70
Will Butch Jones be a better coach this year? Many, many Vol fans are wondering the same thing, will the Vols be improved and still finish 5-7? Very good question.
 
#71
#71
CountVolcula said:
Being in the right place and in the right defense can make teams appear faster than they are

Just as teams in the wrong defensive alignment and consistently playing out of position can make a defense appear slow
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My wife's visiting the grand-daughters in Connecticut and, yet, aspersions of mega-negativity are cast by a nega-vol, clouding over my sunny day (exaggeration)! Of course positioning accounts for the need for speed. Duh! Now. Back to the learning curve discussion: Only dead minds cease progressing with a learning curve and, considering his ardent work ethic, CBJ's is humongous. Most everybody on this team should "get it" by now, so that ubiquitous learning curve is grinning on the Vols this year. They're better. Get it?:eek:lol:
 
#72
#72
orange parmejohn said:
Will a year of battle, help CBJ better prepare for games, make better adjustments, and generally be a better football coach or as with Dooley, do you get what you get and live with it? Many say that at this level, there is no learning curve. You are what you are, so to speak. Obviously talent and staff dictate how a coach handles business, but in the SEC, does Jones deserve the benefit of a learning curve?
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Let's see what the record is at year's end and then decide.
 
#73
#73
sjt18 said:
Sorry but no. ...

...Again, if I am correct in my assessment of Jones, I think his way is vastly superior. But it COULD explain some of what we saw last year that just looked like poor coaching and preparation.
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1. Tennessee had more talent in 2012 than it did in 2013. Last year's team might have been the most thin and non-talented Tennessee team in the modern era. Oregon, especially Mariota, was healthy. I don't see coaching having any effect at all.

2. I personally don't believe UT was capable of stopping that screen against Vanderbilt. Yes, everyone in the stadium and watching by television knew what was coming. I think Matthews makes that catch even if six defensive backs are encircling him.

3. I truly think you are underestimating our opponents' talent and overestimating ours.
 
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#74
#74
I responded to a guy taking a shot at Saban because he lost to Louisiana Monroe or somebody his first year.

And I was responding to a guy who said Saban wouldn't have lost to Vandy last season. If you mean Saban wouldn't have lost to Vandy last season with his Bama team, I agree. If you're point was that Saban wouldn't have lost to Vandy with Butch's team, then I call BS on that and pointed to Saban's loss to UL-M his first season at Bama. And that was after Saban already had an NC under his belt at LSU. I personally don't think Butch would have lost to Vandy last season if Worley and North had been available. I also believe it would have been tough for Saban to overcome those obstacles as well.

I just get irritated with guys talking crap about a guy/team when they have no leg to stand on.

What leg do I not have to stand on? Did Saban not lose to UL-M his first season at Bama? I've not knocked Saban at all. I think he's probably the best coach in CFB, but that doesn't change the fact he lost to UL-M in his first season. Point being, you are at the mercy of what you have to work with when you take over a program.
 
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#75
#75
I think Butch gets too much credit for recruiting and too much blame for the performance last year.

Fact is, the assistant coaches are great recruiters and poor-to-decent coaches.

Butch has to make a decision pretty soon.
 
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