Will Butch Jones be a better coach this year?

[DD4ME]

Like all coaches Butch is not perfect. I personally do not think he or especially this staff will out whit someone on game day. I'm not sure they even focus or plan on that. What they do seem to dwell on is all the things prior to game day. I listed what I see them as below.

Recruiting - yes improving (See Khalil)
Team Unity - yes improving (See Pig)
System - tbd (see Vandy)

Some we can see he is already improving but the last is the most important and was a major weakness last year because our players didn't fit it or didn't know it. IMO though if the 3rd doesn't work out on game day this season or in the future you will not see rabbits out of hats and miracle wins so we better hope it's damn solid.

To the last point I point to Dooley's faux "signature" win over Butch and Co. Dooley as we all know was damned beatable. Butch's scheme and more importantly his D couldn't do it that day though. I'm not saying Butch should have won that game, they had less talent on the field that day. I am saying all his cards will be on the table by the time of kick off for every game.

 

[titansvolsfaninga]

I think Butch gets too much credit for recruiting and too much blame for the performance last year.

Fact is, the assistant coaches are great recruiters and poor-to-decent coaches.

Butch has to make a decision pretty soon.

What makes you say that the assistant coaches are poor-to-decent? Do you know, or are you just regurgitating something that you have heard.

 

[NEO]

Talented, but not experienced

You guys expecting miracles this year are in for a disappointment

Also, we saw the same results last year as the year before and with the same players. Some would argue that a better coach would have been able to do better. After all, that's all we heard from VN was that all we needed was a better coach. A better coach would have taken that team to a bowl game.

Regardless, VN always gets excited about the season and disregards anything that doesn't fit the sunny disposition. This year is going to be rough and I guarantee, the firing squad will be ready by the end of this season. VN doesn't have enough patience to endure the struggles we saw with Majors.

This post is somewhat not true.

With the same squad, Butch beat USCe and almost beat Georgia. That is before Worley got hurt and a Freshman QB came in.

Dooley would not have beat USCe.

With Worley, we would have beat Vandy and maybe Missouri..

 

[DD4ME]

This post is somewhat not true.

With the same squad, Butch beat USCe and almost beat Georgia. That is before Worley got hurt and a Freshman QB came in.

Dooley would not have beat USCe.

With Worley, we would have beat Vandy and maybe Missouri..

Butch is doing a lot of awesome things but there were serious weaknesses in the plan last year. When you take beat downs like OR, Auburn, Bama, and Mizzou and blow prime opportunities like FL and Vandy it's hard to not come away feeling like there were lost opportunities that SHOULD fall on the coaches shoulders.

The great thing about Butch he seems humble and man enough to own them though. He also seems to build into his staff a lot of accountability. I don't think a lot of high level coaches do. We'll see if that's true this year because while Pig may have lost us one, Butch and Co lost us one too in either Vandy or FL.

 

[EconVol92]

I think Butch gets too much credit for recruiting and too much blame for the performance last year.

Fact is, the assistant coaches are great recruiters and poor-to-decent coaches.

Butch has to make a decision pretty soon.

IF, this is true then we will see if Jones can do what Fulmer couldn't (Let coaches go). Fulmer was a great recruiter, but I don't think that for the most part that the players improved that much during their time at Tennessee. I would have to blame the overall coaching staff for that.

I don't think that enough time has passed to be able to tell just how good or bad the coaching staff Butch brought with him is. We should be able to tell more by the end of this season.

 

[DD4ME]

Part of Butch's system is consistency. My personal opinion is some of these coaches aren't world beaters but I don't think it's part of the plan for them to be world beaters.

He really does bring a blue collar approach to the whole deal. Now if one of these assistants doesn't show up on time or get the basics done then yes he will replace him but Butch does not seem to be enamored by the newest hot stock coach either. In some regards that is a Fulmer style. Fulmer was loyal and had success with people he was already familiar with. Butch is absolutely more like a young Fulmer than some on here might admit and he's certainly more like Fulmer than either of the 2 predecessors.

 

[StlCardinals2618]

Saban, spurrier, franklin, miles, and a few others would have figured out wins against Vandy and UF.

Probably, but Spurrier should have found a way to beat UT. Saban should have found a way to beat AU, and Miles should have found a way to beat Ole miss. Freeze should have found a way to beat Miss State, Franklin should have found a way to beat Ole Miss, and Richt should have found a way to beat Vandy.

 

[NEO]

Butch is doing a lot of awesome things but there were serious weaknesses in the plan last year. When you take beat downs like OR, Auburn, Bama, and Mizzou and blow prime opportunities like FL and Vandy it's hard to not come away feeling like there were lost opportunities that SHOULD fall on the coaches shoulders.

The great thing about Butch he seems humble and man enough to own them though. He also seems to build into his staff a lot of accountability. I don't think a lot of high level coaches do. We'll see if that's true this year because while Pig may have lost us one, Butch and Co lost us one too in either Vandy or FL.

I agree with a lot of this but...

1) I feel the oline had a loser mentality and alot of the players do not know how to win. I think they already lost to Florida in their minds before the game even started. I also dont think Butch could change that mental outlook. But the game was frustrating and I put some of that on Butch. It was a lost chance.

2)Vandy game we win if our main WR doesnt go down. I believe we were out coached but the old Vandy coach was a very good coach who was coaching players who were in his system for many years. It was tough to watch.

3) Missouri game we were outmatched on field.


Our team had no heart last year other than a few players. There is a reason our amazing line went mostly undrafted. They were *****es. They played liked *****es. They went down like *****es.

It is hard to win with a young team when your senior line is not nasty and has no heart. They never once took over a game.

I think this years Oline will honestly be better...yes I said it.

 

[StlCardinals2618]

There is no such thing as a perfect coach, Butch had some errors last year, but he also showed a lot of good things too. I'm sure he loved to have the UF game back. Vandy was better than us last year even though people are too proud to admit it.

Butch has wins against great coaches such as Mark Dantonio, Steve Spurrier, James Franklin, Charlie Strong, and Doug Marrone. That's just off the top of my head. He will be a solid coach, the question is if he can take us to the promised land or even to just consistent 10 win seasons

 

[DD4ME]

I agree with a lot of this but...

1) I feel the oline had a loser mentality and alot of the players do not know how to win. I think they already lost to Florida in their minds before the game even started. I also dont think Butch could change that mental outlook. But the game was frustrating and I put some of that on Butch. It was a lost chance.

2)Vandy game we win if our main WR doesnt go down. I believe we were out coached but the old Vandy coach was a very good coach who was coaching players who were in his system for many years. It was tough to watch.

3) Missouri game we were outmatched on field.


Our team had no heart last year other than a few players. There is a reason our amazing line went mostly undrafted. They were *****es. They played liked *****es. They went down like *****es.

It is hard to win with a young team when your senior line is not nasty and has no heart. They never once took over a game.

I think this years Oline will honestly be better...yes I said it.

I agree with a lot of what you said at the end but I'll throw in the caveat here for why coaches share blame.

They stuck with it. They kept playing certain linemen. They kept Peterman in even when hurt.

They could have easily started playing for the future. Results could barely have been worse. That even includes draft statuses.

 

[DD4ME]

There is no such thing as a perfect coach, Butch had some errors last year, but he also showed a lot of good things too. I'm sure he loved to have the UF game back. Vandy was better than us last year even though people are too proud to admit it.

Butch has wins against great coaches such as Mark Dantonio, Steve Spurrier, James Franklin, Charlie Strong, and Doug Marrone. That's just off the top of my head. He will be a solid coach, the question is if he can take us to the promised land or even to just consistent 10 win seasons

I agree. I jumped into this thread after not posting for months on one basic premise. This place loves to deal in absolutes. If nothing has been proven to us as a fan base the one that that should be clear is that none of this crap is very cut and dry. None.

Butch is not Gus Malzahn or Kevin Sumlin. Those guys aren't necessarily the entire reason why their teams had such immediate success either. It's possible Butch wasn't either at Cincy......

Like everything though it's a matter of time because more change is the only thing UT FB absolutely doesn't need.

 

[sjt18]

Jones is much better than Dooley.

Based on? If not for a fluke and ridiculous missed holding call, Dooley would have picked up a win against a vastly superior LSU team in his first year. I would argue that he inherited a worse roster but it was certainly no better... his schedule was as difficult or close to it. He made a bowl game.

It looks like Jones is a much better recruiter.

It looks like he is better with people and relationships.

It appears he's better at managing his players.

But all we have right now concerning his ability to coach at the SEC level is '13. We can hope, and I do, that he will prove to be a better coach than Dooley. However last year didn't demonstrate that.

To me he is better than kiffen. Kiffen had a better roster to deal with it.

Hardly. Don't know if you remember but Kiffin was eventually down to playing LB's who as Fr would see the only significant PT of their careers. They were that bad. DL had very little outside of D Williams. The OL featured the Sullins twins at C and OG... all 265 lbs each of them. Kiffin inherited one QB... who was a head case.

Although I will say we should have beaten Florida and Vandy. With that said, he gets a learning curve do to the fact he beat a ranked team which no of us would have thought in his first year and almost beat Georgia. That's the best we have seen in a while.

Several of us noted about this time last year that UT matched up well with USCe.

 

[Freak]

I agree. I jumped into this thread after not posting for months on one basic premise. This place loves to deal in absolutes. If nothing has been proven to us as a fan base the one that that should be clear is that none of this crap is very cut and dry. None.

Butch is not Gus Malzahn or Kevin Sumlin. Those guys aren't necessarily the entire reason why their teams had such immediate success either. It's possible Butch wasn't either at Cincy......

Like everything though it's a matter of time because more change is the only thing UT FB absolutely doesn't need.

Good to see you posting man. :hi:

 

[DD4ME]

Good to see you posting man. :hi:

Thanks Freak. Always feels like home here. Sometimes you need a break from your family though :crazy:

 

[champyvol]

Will a year of battle, help CBJ better prepare for games, make better adjustments, and generally be a better football coach or as with Dooley, do you get what you get and live with it? Many say that at this level, there is no learning curve. You are what you are, so to speak. Obviously talent and staff dictate how a coach handles business, but in the SEC, does Jones deserve the benefit of a learning curve?

make or break year. will either deserve to be rewarded with a new contract and huge raise. on the other hand if he coaches the way he did last year he will be on the hot seat. i have serious questions about his position coaches that will be answered this year one way or the other.

 

[DD4ME]

Based on? If not for a fluke and ridiculous missed holding call, Dooley would have picked up a win against a vastly superior LSU team in his first year. I would argue that he inherited a worse roster but it was certainly no better... his schedule was as difficult or close to it. He made a bowl game.

Hardly. Don't know if you remember but Kiffin was eventually down to playing LB's who as Fr would see the only significant PT of their careers. They were that bad. DL had very little outside of D Williams. The OL featured the Sullins twins at C and OG... all 265 lbs each of them. Kiffin inherited one QB... who was a head case.


Several of us noted about this time last year that UT matched up well with USCe.

I think the hidden factor here is confidence. Dooley's team in his first year still had some, as did Dooley. By the end neither coaches or players did. Butch does now but his players didn't last year.
The single biggest awesome thing Butch has done is getting that monster size class in here and letting all those beat down guys finish out their seasons (right or wrong) and take the losses with them. I firmly believe Butch is a 10 win coach kind of guy. I have doubts he's a NC type of guy. Oddly and sadly though that's basically where we started when we entered this merry go round. I pray we learned our lesson on knee jerk transitions. We are broke and with a crap record because of it.

 

[sjt18]

I think the hidden factor here is confidence. Dooley's team in his first year still had some, as did Dooley. By the end neither coaches or players did. Butch does now but his players didn't last year.

That's a reasonably good point. Not sure how much Dooley's had in the first year but they certainly had little by and after his last year. But having seen a similar transition before... a new coach should have a pretty remarkable impact on player confidence.

The single biggest awesome thing Butch has done is getting that monster size class in here and letting all those beat down guys finish out their seasons (right or wrong) and take the losses with them. I firmly believe Butch is a 10 win coach kind of guy. I have doubts he's a NC type of guy. Oddly and sadly though that's basically where we started when we entered this merry go round. I pray we learned our lesson on knee jerk transitions. We are broke and with a crap record because of it.

Not sure what Jones is. I personally hope you are wrong about him being a 10 win but not championship type of coach. That would mean UT is stuck as an "also ran" with a coach they can't justify getting rid of.

But I would disagree that UT was there when Fulmer was fired. His trajectory was NOT back in the direction of 10 win seasons. His recruiting had fallen off significantly in terms of linemen. While he looked good on NSD, his player selection and poor team discipline resulted in many of those great talents never making a contribution.

Knee jerk would have been cutting him loose after 2005. After 2008, it was pretty obvious it was time for him to go.

 

[oregonvol]

I am also unaware of any "knee jerk transitions." Dooley got 3 years. 3 YEARS for a coach who couldn't win in the WAC. Fulmer got 4 years to post 2 losing seasons and regularly lose to our rivals. If anything, our AD's problem is that they keep giving guys more time when it's obvious it's not working (but, to be honest, I think the real problem is that we don't research our coaching hires at all).

 

[SouthKnoxVOL]

I expect to see a big improvement from our offense.

IMO our defense, more importantly the defvesive staff, have alot to prove this year.

Why do people keep saying this? The defense improved in almost all categories last year compared to 2012. So in all actuality the offensive staff has a lot to prove this year. Do some research before you make comments like this.

 

[tennrich1]

Let's hope so. It's honestly difficult to grade him based off last year because of the awful roster he was handed. That being said, I'm on record saying I wasn't very impressed outside of the Georgia and SCar games last year. We were just so completely overwhelmed and uncompetitive in the 4 blowout losses that it was hard to see where his ability to prepare and scheme did anything to give confidence that he could keep us in games that we really shouldn't be in. And then..... there was the Vandy game. Not good.

Let's hope that the mixture of him learning from some mistakes and a much more talented roster shows him to be a good enough coach to get us to a championship.

This is going to sound extremely and ridiculously oversimplifying the issue but I had a conversation with a former big time coach who strongly impressed on me the difference in our season (with obvious smaller less impacting issues) was the inability for our back 7 to close .... or as several people including game analyst put in..."they just take bad angles"....there's NO DOUBT in the Oregon, Florida, Alabama, Auburn, and Missouri game they took DIRECT advantage of this flaw over and over again by running the wide receiver screen or a variation of it...The coach said it wasn't bad angles and all the dissecting of our defense that went on....it was one huge thing....LACK OF SPEED IN THE BACK SEVEN...hopefully we are starting to get that corrected...not there yet but working on it....He said "bad angles" is code for SLOW, SLOW, SLOW....

 

[vols4evah]

I think the hidden factor here is confidence. Dooley's team in his first year still had some, as did Dooley. By the end neither coaches or players did. Butch does now but his players didn't last year.
The single biggest awesome thing Butch has done is getting that monster size class in here and letting all those beat down guys finish out their seasons (right or wrong) and take the losses with them. I firmly believe Butch is a 10 win coach kind of guy. I have doubts he's a NC type of guy. Oddly and sadly though that's basically where we started when we entered this merry go round. I pray we learned our lesson on knee jerk transitions. We are broke and with a crap record because of it.

I agree with this 100%, he set this up so that this years team can start fresh and forget all those down years, this is a big step in changing the Loser Mentality that the team has had the last few years.

However I disagree with the last part of your post because Butch is doing the single most important and the hardest thing for becoming a national contender and that's recruiting. its what Saban did and what Fischer did at FSU.

recruit,recruit,recruit. That is the bottom line and Butch is proving he can do that.

Saban is NOT the greatest coach ever but I do believe he is the greatest recruiter in the history of college football. In 48 years of being a CFB fan I have never seen a team/coach recruit the #1 class in a row like he has and is doing. Its easy to look like a great coach when you recruit like that.

Its exactly what Fischer did at FSU also. He recruited top classes every year then BAM one day you look up and they are in the NCG.

give CBJ time and I believe he will do the same thing here. I would rather have decent coaches that are great recruiters, than great coaches who cant recruit.

Our coaches can "by god" recruit with the best of them.
Its all about recruiting guys.

 

[DD4ME]

I am also unaware of any "knee jerk transitions." Dooley got 3 years. 3 YEARS for a coach who couldn't win in the WAC. Fulmer got 4 years to post 2 losing seasons and regularly lose to our rivals. If anything, our AD's problem is that they keep giving guys more time when it's obvious it's not working (but, to be honest, I think the real problem is that we don't research our coaching hires at all).

I should have been more clear I said transitions. It was time for Fulmer to go but it should and could have been better planned managed and staged. Dooley the same. Managing these scenarios seems as relevant to on field results as the coaching. I could envision a mediocre Fulmer team doing well in the east some of these last years. Just my 2 cents.

 

[utvols74]

Turn back the clock to 2007 - UT (#20) vs. Alabama (unranked).

UT heavily favored; UA already lost to 2nd tier school.

What did Saban do?

Started the game off with a on-side kick - that's right - on-side kick.Alabama recovered and UT didn't. Game over. Alabama - 41 / UT - 17.

That is what truly great coaches do when they have nothing to lose. UT had nothing to lose last year and I would have appreciated a little more creativity. I'm fully behind Jones (not one negative post from me to date). I just hope that we see some more evidence of the ability to win games than we have to date. If UT had won against UF, UGA and Vandy (and they could have and perhaps should have), then I'd say we have the next Saban on our hands. But since he didn't.....we'll see.

 

[PagingDrVol]

Will Butch Jones be a better coach this year? Many, many Vol fans are wondering the same thing, will the Vols be improved and still finish 5-7? Very good question.

There's not a coach alive that could take the current roster, with it's current experience, and this year's schedule, and win more than 6 games. The only real question is whether the idiot brigade wing of VN can get their heads around that, and be patient til 2016.

 

[thebjd]

I hate salad.

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