Will Butch Jones be a better coach this year?

#176
#176
dooley2 said:
Yeah... Just like Saban lost to Louisiana-Nobody-State his first year. Spurrier has lost to Kentucky and Vandy at SC, Les Miles almost lost to Dooley, and Franklin DID lose to Dooley. Take your ball and go home.
Click to expand...

ALL great coaches/teams have an occasional hiccough.

Fulmer/UT vs Memphis st

Saban/Bama vs LA M

Miles/LSWho vs Dooley

And, drum roll please,

Spurrier/SC vs Jones

But, for everyone here saying LA-M proves that Jones = Saban I say great! Let's settle in and get ready to enjoy UTs 12-0 run this year and NC in year 3 (just like Saban).
 
#177
#177
oregonvol said:
But I do think we're in agreement on the poor management and planning. It amazes me that we have people in charge of our multimillion dollar athletic program who thought Lane Kiffin was trustworthy and who thought that Derek Dooley could ever win in the SEC (and even though Hamilton is gone, alot of the people involved in those decisions are still making them). It may work out with Butch Jones, but I can't shake the feeling that he was just a guess, not the product of a laborious search and a thorough vetting of candidates, but just a "hey, who is out there who wants the job and we don't have to do any work to get?" More than any coach, it seems like our decision makers and their lack of commitment, knowledge, and capability is what continues to hold our program back.
Click to expand...

And perhaps along with the guess was the perfect fit for the price they were willing to pay ($6mil total).

Shouldn't have taken much work to convince CBJ to turn down what, $900k from CO, to take $3mil from UT.

Maybe this time the collective blind hog on the Hill has stumbled upon a nut, but it remains to be seen.
 
#178
#178
orange parmejohn said:
Totally disagree for many reasons. 1.This team is far from done losing. 2.A coach plays to win games, not to let upperclassmen take presumed losses. 3.Jones played young guys too.
4.Getting experience for younger players is more valuable than protecting them from losing.
Click to expand...

I never said they where done losing. I am talking about the mental aspect of the game, teaching them how to win. Its the difference between going into a game thinking your going to lose or going into a game believing you will win.

This team has a chance to start fresh with a new OL and DL and being so young. A chance to develop a new winning attitude and that is very important especially when you play the kind of schedule we play.
 
#179
#179
titansvolsfaninga said:
Everyone was turning down the freakin job. So was CBJ a shot in the dark? No one will know.
Click to expand...

If we're going down that road (it seems to be a favorite road of volnation for the past several years, the "no one else would take our job, so we have to declare the coach who took it and the administration who hired him infallible" expressway), then one has to ask, did Malzahn turn it down? Would he have not wanted to make an extra $500,000-$800,000 a year to start?
 
#180
#180
This thread is almost the perfect representation of volnation. Just on the first page, we have the original poster simply asking if our coach will improve and then it is almost immediately dismissed as an utterly silly concept. Then we get all the excuses about how he didn't have the players to do anything, and it's only the players that need to improve. And then we conclude, on the same page, by post #14, that no other coach in college football could have possibly beaten Vanderbilt at home with the 13 4 stars we started in that game. Give yourself a round of applause Volnation, you've distilled your special brand coach idolatry into something quite potent.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#182
#182
oregonvol said:
This thread is almost the perfect representation of volnation. Just on the first page, we have the original poster simply asking if our coach will improve and then it is almost immediately dismissed as an utterly silly concept. Then we get all the excuses about how he didn't have the players to do anything, and it's only the players that need to improve. And then we conclude, on the same page, by post #14, that no other coach in college football could have possibly beaten Vanderbilt at home with the 13 4 stars we started in that game. Give yourself a round of applause Volnation, you've distilled your special brand coach idolatry into something quite potent.
Click to expand...

Not to be an arse...but, "Duh"....and you've been around longer then me!
 
#184
#184
It's interesting to see how similar the on-field performances of Dooley's and Butch's first teams were. (NOTE: I'VE LISTED THE SECOND GAME OF DD'S SEASON AGAINST 3RD GAME OF BUTCH DUE TO THE PRESENCE OF AN ADDITIONAL "TUNE-UP) Butch had an extra cupcake to start, but other than that the schedules played out very similar.

DD Butch
(1) UTM w 50-0 (1) Austin Peay w 45-0
(2) WKU w 52-20

SIMILAR BEATINGS BY OREGON (NOTE: Was DD's 2nd game, Butch's 3rd game)
(2) Oregon L 48-13 (3) Oregon L 59-14

EXACT SCORES AGAINST FLORIDA
(3) Florida L 31-17 (4) Florida L 31-17

CLOSER THAN SHOULD HAVE BEEN AGAINST CUPCAKES FROM ALABAMA
(4) UAB W 32-29 (OT) (5) USA W 31-24

THEN BOTH SAW DEFEAT SNATCHED FROM THE JAWS OF VICTORY
(5) LSU L 16-14 (6) UGA L 34-31 (OT)

OBVIOUSLY THE SCAR GAME IS WHERE BUTCH DISTINGUISHES HIS SEASON
(6) UGA L 41-14 (7) SCAR W 23-21

VERY SIMILAR GAMES AGAINST 'BAMA
(7) Alabama L 41-10 (8) Alabama L 45-10

(8) SCAR L 38-24

LISTED THE LAST FOUR GAMES SIDE BY SIDE. BUTCH PLAYED 2 TOP TEN TEAMS, WHILE DD HAD IT PRETTY EASY. DD DID TAKE CARE OF VANDY.

(9) Memphis W 50-14 (9) Missouri L 31-3

(10) Ole Miss W 52-14 (10) Auburn L 55-23

(11) Vanderbilt W 24-10 (11) Vanderbilt L 14-10

(12) Kentucky W 24-14 (12) Kentucky W 27-14

BOWL UNC L 30-27 (OT) NO BOWL GAME
 
#185
#185
Not sure what you are trying to demonstrate volgrad500. If it is that Jones is just a little better than Dooley... then I don't take much comfort in that.
 
#186
#186
tm3 said:
ALL great coaches/teams have an occasional hiccough.

Fulmer/UT vs Memphis st

Saban/Bama vs LA M

Miles/LSWho vs Dooley

And, drum roll please,

Spurrier/SC vs Jones

But, for everyone here saying LA-M proves that Jones = Saban I say great! Let's settle in and get ready to enjoy UTs 12-0 run this year and NC in year 3 (just like Saban).
Click to expand...
One of these only fits because it was considered an upset. If you had actually looked at the UT and USCe rosters as some of us did last summer... it would not have surprised you that UT won. UT had favorable match ups in that game more than any of their other quality opponents.
 
#187
#187
Good post. I think whether or not he turns out to be a good game planner, strategist and field coach is the only question he has yet to answer. He has been spectacular in every other area

But to be honest, I personally wasn't overly impressed last year with his field decisions, especially in the Vandy game at the end. I just don't see how you don't try to milk more time off the clock instead of insisting on continuing to push the tempo in that situation. I'm not saying we should try to camp on the ball with a slim lead like we've done in the past, but there is such a thing as continuing to run aggressive plays while still trying your best to take time off the clock (at least wait until there are two or three seconds on the play clock before you snap the ball).

But I feel that if CBJ is willing to subject himself and his (and his coaches) decisions to the same detail-oriented quality control process he seems to have implemented for his players, he is ultimately going to excel in these areas as well.
 
#188
#188
sjt18 said:
Not sure what you are trying to demonstrate volgrad500. If it is that Jones is just a little better than Dooley... then I don't take much comfort in that.
Click to expand...

Ha well I'm not sure I really had a point. It just struck me how similar their first years were.
 
#189
#189
Volsfaninva917 said:
Hard to win in chess when all the others hold all the pieces
Click to expand...

This!

images


Things do appear to be changing for the better.
 
#190
#190
PagingDrVol said:
There's not a coach alive that could take the current roster, with it's current experience, and this year's schedule, and win more than 6 games. The only real question is whether the idiot brigade wing of VN can get their heads around that, and be patient til 2016.
Click to expand...

I disagree with this. This schedule is extremely tough on the top end, but it also features games against Utah State, Chattanooga, Arkansas State, and Kentucky. We will be more talented than all of these teams, and play all of them at home. That should be four wins in the bag before the season even starts.

Even if you chalk up guaranteed losses against Oklahoma, Alabama, and (possibly) Georgia, the remaining games should all be very competitive. Who among Florida, Ole Miss, Missouri, Vandy, or South Carolina would it be such a stretch to imagine us beating?
 
#191
#191
SouthKnoxVOL said:
Why do people keep saying this? The defense improved in almost all categories last year compared to 2012. So in all actuality the offensive staff has a lot to prove this year. Do some research before you make comments like this.
Click to expand...

Our defense in 12 was bad, Biblically old testament bad, so yeh last year our defense improved.

IMO they still have alot to prove.
 
#192
#192
So far, Dooley has a better record at UT then butch, and he did it with a worse team.

Think about that...
 
#194
#194
oregonvol said:
If we're going down that road (it seems to be a favorite road of volnation for the past several years, the "no one else would take our job, so we have to declare the coach who took it and the administration who hired him infallible" expressway), then one has to ask, did Malzahn turn it down? Would he have not wanted to make an extra $500,000-$800,000 a year to start?
Click to expand...

What?! Why would Malzahn want to come to UT when he already had a foundation laid in Auburn. Everyone knew he would go back to AU. What is the point of your question.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#196
#196
66volfan said:
What was the final season rankings of Dooley's competition vs Jones? I think Jones had a tougher row to hoe.
Click to expand...

In year one he didn't. DD actually faced better Oregon and Bama teams plus LSU. UT NEVER plays an easy schedule. If anything, it troubles me that Jones pointed to the schedule difficulty as a reason/excuse. It may get slightly less difficult but he'll never see anything like the weak SOS he had at Cincy.

The final product is what we have to be concerned about but Jones did NOT do better on the field in year one than Dooley or Kiffin. He appears to have done better than either in recruiting. Hopefully he has done much better in off-season development as well.
 
#197
#197
gunner said:
No, Dooley was unqualified to begin with, and did not deserve the job. He did nothing to inspire our base of fans,
Click to expand...
The first part is irrelevant. The AD took a shot at a potential up and comer when no one wanted the job. His job, nor Jones', is to "inspire you"... the job is to win games. Hopefully that inspires you.

he lost badly to most ranked teams that he play,
Click to expand...
Hmmm. So has Jones so far at UT and they haven't been particularly competitive in most cases.

lost his only Bowl game, and lost to one of the worst Kentucky teams of all time.
Click to expand...
But he qualified for a bowl... right? And we SHOULD be able to agree that if not for a fluke play at the end and a bogus "launching" call... UT wins that game.

Butch has said and done all the right things so far,
Click to expand...
LOL... No he hasn't. I hope he is great but he hasn't even posted a winning season yet... He's hardly done "all the right things". He lost to Vandy for goodness sakes... and took a risk that may have cost UT a win at UF.

and has recruited top talent,
Click to expand...
It appears that way but we all felt pretty good about Dooley's first class too. Jones DOES seem to be sustaining better.

the biggest mistake Butch has made so far is starting Peterman at Florida. Losing to Vandy in Neyland is unacceptable too, that can't be allowed to happen.
Click to expand...
So he hasn't done all the right things, correct?

Yes, we expect steady improvement, but more than that the Vols need to play with the swagger and confidence like the days of old. The rest of the SEC needs to fear coming into to Neyland Stadium, and until that happens were are still rebuilding, IMO.
Click to expand...
You get there one win at a time. You get there by having even victorious opponents knowing that they were in a game even when talent-wise they outmatch UT. That may come. But we didn't see that last year in several games.

I like Butch, and his offensive coaches, but after what I saw last season, I'm not really sure the Defensive staff can get the Vols to where we want them. I hope that I am wrong.
Click to expand...
We're in agreement here.

Most of my motivation for answering posts like yours is the notion that somehow being as good or a little better than Dooley is OK. If someone can reasonable argue Dooley's performance on the field against Jones'... then we still have great reasons to be skeptical.

I hope Jones will be better... I think he will... but I want to see coaching performance much better than last year before I'll be convinced. Not just wins but decisions, strategies, gameplanning, playcalling, use of talent, adjustments... everything.
 
#198
#198
sjt18 said:
In year one he didn't. DD actually faced better Oregon and Bama teams plus LSU. UT NEVER plays an easy schedule. If anything, it troubles me that Jones pointed to the schedule difficulty as a reason/excuse. It may get slightly less difficult but he'll never see anything like the weak SOS he had at Cincy.

The final product is what we have to be concerned about but Jones did NOT do better on the field in year one than Dooley or Kiffin. He appears to have done better than either in recruiting. Hopefully he has done much better in off-season development as well.
Click to expand...

Dooley beat Memphis, Ole Miss, Vandy and Kentucky to close out the year. Bray lit it up by going 4-0 down the stretch. The freshman QB brought in this past year did not have the same success. I do not have a problem with the roll of the dice against UF but the Vandy game was a hard pill to swallow considering all of their DB's were injured and we could not close them out.
 
Last edited:
#200
#200
Having an extremely difficult top 5 schedule, with talent ranked in the bottom of the SEC can make a great coach look bewildered and incompetent at times. Likewise, having great depth and talent can make even the most beleaguered coach appear enduring. It may very well be that Butch Jones falls somewhere in the middle in terms of coaching ability, but if he continues to recruit the way he is recruiting, he should end up somewhere near the top of the SEC come 2017.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top