Will Rand Paul plunge the world into catastrophic depression?

[BigPapaVol]

Not only that, it appears to be snotty nosed whiny as well.

When I first came on this board one couldn't get a conservative word in edgewise, it was overrun with immature, inane, ignorant, brainwashed, meaningless, frivolity.

It was the iambic pentameter.
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[sjt18]

That was the decision that allowed virtually unlimited amounts of money to be pumped into elections with no disclosure. That's the Cliff Notes version.
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No. I don't. Congress has no Constitutional authority to enact a law that suppresses political free speech in that way. McCain-Feingold was one of the most egregious attacks on free speech in my life time. SCOTUS didn't create law as they did in Roe v Wade. They overturned a law because it did not have firm constitutional founding.

For the very same reason, many laws enacted during the period of Progressive domination (1912-1980) should be overturned (but won't be). I'm not even saying that we should not have some programs... only that the Founders provided a means of changing the USC so we COULD have those things if there was enough agreement. The 10th Amendment is very specific and binding... yet much of our modern day gov't was grown beyond those limits with weak or non-existent constitutional authority.

 

[JayVols]

It was the iambic pentameter.
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That's kinda funny. I chuckled. It reminded me of the movie Patton......
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[JayVols]

No. I don't. Congress has no Constitutional authority to enact a law that suppresses political free speech in that way. They didn't create law as SCOTUS did in Roe v Wade. They overturned a law because it did not have firm constitutional founding.

For the very same reason, many laws enacted during the period of Progressive domination (1912-1980) should be overturned (but won't be). I'm not even saying that we should not have some programs... only that the Founders provided a means of changing the USC so we COULD have those things if there was enough agreement. The 10th Amendment is very specific and binding... yet much of our modern day gov't was grown beyond those limits with weak or non-existent constitutional authority.

I failed to mention that it was aimed at corporations. My probelm with the ruling is twofold. 1. It basically gives corporate entities 'individual citizens' rights. 2. With the obvious exception of National Security/Defense when something is done secretively, it seems underhanded to me. If a company, individual, or union believes in an issue/candidate strongly they should not be ashamed to stand behind their donation. I guess it's threefold.... because 3. It creates a ripe atmosphere for corruption IMO.
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[JayVols]

I appreciate your apology but it really isn't necessary. I enjoy this or wouldn't do it. Iron sharpens iron. This is a pretty safe way to try out your ideals to see if they hold water and are strong enough to stand scrutiny.

I did come on strong enough to provoke a defensive posture. Sorry about that.

I would like to answer your question though if you can give me a little detail.

No problem. I am just big on respect. The way I was raised. Took many beatings over disrespect. I got the message eventually........
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[sjt18]

I failed to mention that it was aimed at corporations. My probelm with the ruling is twofold. 1. It basically gives corporate entities 'individual citizens' rights.

That isn't new. It may or may not be a good thing but it is a longstanding and widely applied principle.

2. With the obvious exception of National Security/Defense when something is done secretively, it seems underhanded to me. If a company, individual, or union believes in an issue/candidate strongly they should not be ashamed to stand behind their donation.

One of the problems with the law to start with is that unions and other select groups were exempted.

I have some fairly radical ideals about corporations and the accumulation of wealth generally. It is my strong opinion that ALL accumulations of power and money in the hands of relatively small groups are a direct threat to the rights and freedoms of the "people". So in line with that, I think we should have an Amendment that would restrict giving to individuals within some reasonably "liberal" constraint... say $25K... but that politicians must disclose all donors.

I guess it's threefold.... because 3. It creates a ripe atmosphere for corruption IMO.
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I don't entirely disagree though McCain/Feingold had carefully preserved the influence of corrupt unions on the election process. The problem is that Congress does not have the Constitutional authority to pass that law. We have to give it to them by the constitutional procedure that protects our rights.

 

[JayVols]

That isn't new. It may or may not be a good thing but it is a longstanding and widely applied principle. One of the problems with the law to start with is that unions and other select groups were exempted.

I have some fairly radical ideals about corporations and the accumulation of wealth generally. It is my strong opinion that ALL accumulations of power and money in the hands of relatively small groups are a direct threat to the rights and freedoms of the "people". So in line with that, I think we should have an Amendment that would restrict giving to individuals within some reasonably "liberal" constraint... say $25K... but that politicians must disclose all donors.



I don't entirely disagree though McCain/Feingold had carefully preserved the influence of corrupt unions on the election process. The problem is that Congress does not have the Constitutional authority to pass that law. We have to give it to them by the constitutional procedure that protects our rights.

I come from a union home, so I have a somewhat pro union position. Having said that, I think unions should fight for a select few things: fair not exhorbetent wages, workers safety, and preserving jobs in America. Sadly some unrealistic demands from unions have helped drive US jobs overseas. Unions should be subjected to campaign finance reform as well.
I am completely with you on the concentrated wealth issues. It is very dangerous to have the gap that we do between workers and CEOs. When 2% of the people control the large majority of wealth in the country, we have some major problems. America was arguably its strongest in the 1950s when 60% of the population was considered middle class and we produced half of everything that was made in the world. When you work for the bottom wage spectrum, you have communism. When you work solely for the upper tier, you have an oligarchy. A strong vibrant middle class makes America. I do NOT begrudge the rich. They should get their rewards for success; however, they also should not
persue pollicies such as outsourcing for the sole purpose of more and more profits. I agree concentrated wealth is a recipe for stripping the people of their rights. I also agree with campaign limits for all private, corporate, and unions. Full disclosure for all.
As we debate, I realize that we do have common ground. We may not be as far apart as we first thought. That's pretty cool.
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[gasguy98]

I don't know. He proclaims to be a true believer. If he follows through on the rhetoric, its a problem.

Reminds me to some degree of these people we have living in the Orlando area who insist that the federal government does not have the power to tax income. There's a whole community. Every time one gets sent to federal prison, 2 new ones pop up in their place, sending vaguely threatening and antagonistic stuff to the papers, judges, law enforcement officers, etc.

You do understand he is one of 100, right?
How anyone on this board pays any attention to you boggles the mind.

 

[azVolFan]

Yes, I do see the difference. Many do not see the difference. News is news, commentators have shows with their slant on things. Sorry, I just see Beck as a loon. JMO. He is a member of a religious cult IMO. I do not see Mormonism as a legit Christian faith. These are my opinions. Just as a disclaimer, he and anyone else has every right to practice the Mormon faith. I have read the book of Mormon. Wasn't impressed. I have a hard time buying into the fact that Joe Smith was the ONLY guy that could translate GOLDEN tablets?

There is no such thing as the Mormon faith. The followers of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints are commonly referred to as Mormons. Mormons pray to Jesus, not Joseph Smith.

Religion is a very personal thing and each person will come to their faith or not on their own accord. Christianity (IMO) is about your own relationship with Jesus and this relationship is between you, Jesus and others with whom you choose to share that faith with.

Spoiler Alert! I'm going to go way out on a limb and conclude that those on here who aren't Mormon don't believe that Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon and probably think the idea is kooky.

You could make assumptions about my faith and how I got here by reading this post but you'd be very wrong. I'm obviously not a Mormon hater.

 

[sjt18]

I come from a union home, so I have a somewhat pro union position. Having said that, I think unions should fight for a select few things: fair not exhorbetent wages, workers safety, and preserving jobs in America. Sadly some unrealistic demands from unions have helped drive US jobs overseas. Unions should be subjected to campaign finance reform as well.
I am completely with you on the concentrated wealth issues. It is very dangerous to have the gap that we do between workers and CEOs. When 2% of the people control the large majority of wealth in the country, we have some major problems. America was arguably its strongest in the 1950s when 60% of the population was considered middle class and we produced half of everything that was made in the world. When you work for the bottom wage spectrum, you have communism. When you work solely for the upper tier, you have an oligarchy. A strong vibrant middle class makes America. I do NOT begrudge the rich. They should get their rewards for success; however, they also should not
persue pollicies such as outsourcing for the sole purpose of more and more profits. I agree concentrated wealth is a recipe for stripping the people of their rights. I also agree with campaign limits for all private, corporate, and unions. Full disclosure for all.
As we debate, I realize that we do have common ground. We may not be as far apart as we first thought. That's pretty cool.
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Unions are one of the groups that I fear having too much power and money. This could be partially remedied if a law were passed requiring at least two or three separate unions to bid on any labor contract. It would not have to be different workers since the workers could sign with whoever got the contract.

Unions have a long history of corruption. Union bosses have outright stolen the pensions of workers. They are more than likely responsible for more elections crimes than any other group.

It was a good and possibly even necessary movement to start with but I have no use for what they've become.

IMHO, big labor, big business, the wealthy elite (folks like Buffett, Soros, Gates, et al), big gov't, big academia, and big media are not really adversaries. I see them as siblings just trying to figure out how to carve up the cake (us).

The nasty little secret is that the super rich and larger corporations are more Dem than GOP. A big business may put on some "show" but regulations don't bother them very much... they represent entry barriers for competition. An established company can afford an environmental engineer to handle onerous EPA regs... a new competitor can't. The super rich that the Libs claim to want to tax... always seem to have loopholes that only apply to wealth at certain levels.

We saw just a glimpse of the truth about Dems and establishment Republicans in this election cycle. Both are terrified of the Tea Party... you have to ask, why? Why work so hard to demonize a group comprised almost exclusively of hard working, honest, taxpaying, ethical, moral, middle class Americans?

IMO, the answer is that the TP really does want to deconstruct some of the power structures we've talked about.

 

[JayVols]

There is no such thing as the Mormon faith. The followers of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints are commonly referred to as Mormons. Mormons pray to Jesus, not Joseph Smith.

Religion is a very personal thing and each person will come to their faith or not on their own accord. Christianity (IMO) is about your own relationship with Jesus and this relationship is between you, Jesus and others with whom you choose to share that faith with.

Spoiler Alert! I'm going to go way out on a limb and conclude that those on here who aren't Mormon don't believe that Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon and probably think the idea is kooky.

You could make assumptions about my faith and how I got here by reading this post but you'd be very wrong. I'm obviously not a Mormon hater.

I am not a Mormon or Latter Day Saints hater. I just think they are wrong. BTW do you know exactly why the Mormons, LDS, followers of Joe Smith went to the Great Salt Lake?
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[sjt18]

I know more than the avg non-Mormon about the LDS. JayVols isn't far off in his assessment.

Where you likely miss though JayVols is that many if not most Mormons don't know very much about the organization. I would be interested in knowing just how "Mormon" Beck is.

 

[JayVols]

I know more than the avg non-Mormon about the LDS. JayVols isn't far off in his assessment.

Where you likely miss though JayVols is that many if not most Mormons don't know very much about the organization. I would be interested in knowing just how "Mormon" Beck is.

Nice point. He is a recent convert from Catholicism if I am not mistaken. Converted because of a woman I think. That's some powerful stuff if it makes you change religions.......
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[azVolFan]

I am not a Mormon or Latter Day Saints hater. I just think they are wrong. BTW do you know exactly why the Mormons, LDS, followers of Joe Smith went to the Great Salt Lake?
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I think you may have another reason in mind but it was to escape persecution.

"I just think they are wrong." I get that and you could say I think Mormons are wrong by saying you are Catholic or Methodist or Baptist. All other people from all other religions think Mormons are wrong as all Mormons think they are wrong. It's a given.

 

[droski]

I'd like to have my own planet when i die.

 

[azVolFan]

Nice point. He is a recent convert from Catholicism if I am not mistaken. Converted because of a woman I think. That's some powerful stuff if it makes you change religions.......
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I think he prayed to alcohol before converting.

 

[JayVols]

I think you may have another reason in mind but it was to escape persecution.

"I just think they are wrong." I get that and you could say I think Mormons are wrong by saying you are Catholic or Methodist or Baptist. All other people from all other religions think Mormons are wrong as all Mormons think they are wrong. It's a given.

Wrong on all the religion guesses. I believe in Jesus. I just don't believe in Jesus, the Western (aka Mormonism)

They did leave to escape persecution. Smith was targeted and killed. Young led them to the most God-forsaken place he could find so no one would follow them.

LDS, Mormons, whatever they want to call themselves, have the right to worship however they want. BUT IMO too many contradictions (maybe not outright said but in style, attitude, etc) conflict with the Bible. These are my opinions only. TIFWIW.

One quick question. Why in the world would a man want more than one WIFE? I love my wife dearly BUT she (ONE wife) nags and fusses and complains enough for me. I couldn't fathom multiple nagging women approaching or actually getting a visit from Aunt Flo. Now, I might be up for a group that promotes one wife but multiple concubines or one night stands are allowed.... That's a joke btw.

 

[azVolFan]

Wrong on all the religion guesses. I believe in Jesus. I just don't believe in Jesus, the Western (aka Mormonism)

They did leave to escape persecution. Smith was targeted and killed. Young led them to the most God-forsaken place he could find so no one would follow them.

LDS, Mormons, whatever they want to call themselves, have the right to worship however they want. BUT IMO too many contradictions (maybe not outright said but in style, attitude, etc) conflict with the Bible. These are my opinions only. TIFWIW.

One quick question. Why in the world would a man want more than one WIFE? I love my wife dearly BUT she (ONE wife) nags and fusses and complains enough for me. I couldn't fathom multiple nagging women approaching or actually getting a visit from Aunt Flo. Now, I might be up for a group that promotes one wife but multiple concubines or one night stands are allowed.... That's a joke btw.

Fundamentalist LDS'ers still believe in plural marriage but they are not the same as LDS. There was a split in Mormons after their escape to Utah over whether Brigham Young or (Joseph Smith's son or brother) should be the leader of the church. The Brigham Young'ers are the LDS and the others are the FLDS.

I could not imagine having more than one wife. I'd rather have one wife who wants to have 3-ways (with an additional woman).

 

[JayVols]

fundamentalist lds'ers still believe in plural marriage but they are not the same as lds. There was a split in mormons after their escape to utah over whether brigham young or (joseph smith's son or brother) should be the leader of the church. The brigham young'ers are the lds and the others are the flds.

I could not imagine having more than one wife. I'd rather have one wife who wants to have 3-ways (with an additional woman).

agreed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[emainvol]

Sorry Jayvols, if you aren't conservative you are a dirty liberal that is corroding the constitution and chipping away at the foundation of this country.

Wait a minute, are you telling me there is more to the political spectrum than conservative and evil, puppy eating communist minotaur?

 

[sjt18]

They did leave to escape persecution. Smith was targeted and killed. Young led them to the most God-forsaken place he could find so no one would follow them.

That's what I thought prior to going to SLC. That area is one of the prettiest places I have ever been. The have some very fertile river bottoms as well. The valleys are very green- not what I expected.

 

[sjt18]

Fundamentalist LDS'ers still believe in plural marriage but they are not the same as LDS. There was a split in Mormons after their escape to Utah over whether Brigham Young or (Joseph Smith's son or brother) should be the leader of the church. The Brigham Young'ers are the LDS and the others are the FLDS.

There are actually more splits than that.

The ruling against polygamy was because of external political pressure, not internal conflict. The fundamental Mormons consider others liberal compromisers for giving in.

 

[IPorange]

Not only that, it appears to be snotty nosed whiny as well.

When I first came on this board one couldn't get a conservative word in edgewise, it was overrun with immature, inane, ignorant, brainwashed, meaningless, frivolity.

Ya, I've been fighting off a cold.

You must be a traveler from another dimension, gsvol. This board has always been overwhelmingly conservative.
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[VolsSportsFan]

Rand Paul refers to being enslaved to debt and that the country cannot spend more than it takes in.

The only way that the country can service its debt, and we are scheduled to need to deal with it around March, is to legislatively raise the debt ceiling. Even very conservative Senators have recognized this but have voted to raise it.

This country has never defaulted on its debt.

But Rand Paul speaks in terms suggesting he might individually filibuster the act to raise the ceiling. If he does, when we hit midnight on that day, we will default.

And if that happens you can have all the gold coins and seeds you want from Glenn Beck. Won't help.

Again, you complain about Beck, Hannity, etc. scaring everyone with rhetoric and yet you post this drivel.

 

[Lexvol]

If China wants their money, tell them to come take it.