Will Tennessee ever return to national contender status?

[Majors]

Need to find this era’s Mickie DeMoss…

Closest we had is now at South Carolina.

 

[Majors]

Need to find this era’s Mickie DeMoss…

Are you sure Kellie can handle that kind of coach? It was always Summitt’s team but Demoss had no issues being blunt.

 

[1reVOLver]

Tomorrow?!…… lol

 

[GBOTango]

IMHO, the University is ok with a middle of the pack SEC women's program. Harper did nothing special at her last gig, and the administration hired her. What else can you say. The other sports programs at UT are leaving women's basketball behind. As long as she can stay in the upper tier of the SEC standings, make it to the big dance, and win a few games in the tourney, UT will never let her go. So instead of fans fervently watching every game like we used to, we will tune in every once in a while to witness a team with some undisciplined talent win a few and lose a few. On the plus side, Harper seems to be a fantastic human being, and a good role model for young women.

 

[NeedOrange]

A great coach can make a great athlete (who wants to do so) into a great basketball player,,,however a great coach cannot make a great basketball player into a great athlete...Give me an athlete who wants to learn my sport over a basketball player with limited athleticism,,,,,EVERY TIME !!

Limited Athleticism = Larry Bird - slow, can't jump but he was a player.

 

[Majors]

So instead of fans fervently watching every game like we used to, we will tune in every once in a while to witness a team with some undisciplined talent win a few and lose a few.

Once apathy and low attendance sets in, the end is near.

 

[NeedOrange]

Need to find this era’s Mickie DeMoss…

WOW! @chuckiepoo nails it in one sentence. Geno without Chris Daily would not have worked. Amazing and interesting point. It is not a coincidence that the only two people in the hall as assistants are Lady Vols and UConn. Two people committed to the process and institution above personal success. Two people who personify excellence and a balance to the head coach.

 

[#1LVLS MAN 4 LIFE]

Pat was incensed about Maya Moore recruiting process because she realized a generational player like that is the difference between a NC and also ran.

Having said that, the record shows that Geno did surpass Pat and her illness insured she would not catch up.

I don't think the investment thing holds water. The LVs have great practice and training facilities and no shortage of staff. It is true that once the athletic departments were combined, Tennessee women;s athletics lost a little glitter- but I don't think that is the major issue.

The flipside is that OTHER programs have upped their investments and emphasis on women's basketball and there is a much larger talent pool so that lesser known teams can put a reasonably talented squad on the floor.

It just not feasible for the LVs to regain the relative $ advantages they once had over other programs back in the 1990's and 2000s. No AD would make that kind of arms race investment in women;s basketball.

Kellie keeping the LVs competitive in the SEC and making the Sweet 16s is being treated as a complete failure but that is completely unrealistic assessment. I promise you that swapping Kellie for Kyra Elzy or Alex Simmons is not the quicker path to an NC.

Much of the investments in facilities was during our championship era, and if capital investments in your program dosen't whole water, why would any program let alone UT, upgrade their facilities. Elite programs know and understand that when a recruit visits their campus facilities matter. But that's only part of the equation, it's staffing, vendor relationships, marketing, and the like, all these things matter. Moreover, why is it not feasible for the LV to regain or establish an advantage over other program, thinking otherwise is limiting, no one wants to be satisfied with mediocrity. Whether or not our current AD is willing to invest in gaining advantage over other program is something to be determined. The S16 is okay if your new to tournament play or you get there every so often, but if your championship program, it's really sub-standard. Standards matter. I'm not in favor of making a change at HC, but coaching matters. I just think we need to upgrade our offensive system and philosophy. However, if a change does occur, no matter who you bring in, it will take time to get back to winning a NC, but Elzy and Simmons are good young up and coming coaches.​

 

[Majors]

Much of the investments in facilities was during our championship era, and if capital investments in your program dosen't whole water, why would any program let alone UT, upgrade their facilities. Elite programs know and understand that when a recruit visits their campus facilities matter. But that's only part of the equation, it's staffing, vendor relationships, marketing, and the like, all these things matter. Moreover, why is it not feasible for the LV to regain or establish an advantage over other program, thinking otherwise is limiting, no one wants to be satisfied with mediocrity. Whether or not our current AD is willing to invest in gaining advantage over other program is something to be determined. The S16 is okay if your new to tournament play or you get there every so often, but if your championship program, it's really sub-standard. Standards matter. I'm not in favor of making a change at HC, but coaching matters. I just think we need to upgrade our offensive system and philosophy. However, if a change does occur, no matter who you bring in, it will take time to get back to winning a NC, but Elzy and Simmons are good young up and coming coaches.​

That’s not accurate. Tennessee has had major investments into the program with the Pratt Pavilion. A new state of the art locker room that was upgraded recently.

“In 2018, an extensive facelift took place to the existing men's and women's basketball locker-room space along the arena's north corridor on event level. Both locker rooms were enlarged and modernized with state-of-the-art technological and aesthetic enhancements.”

Tennessee has all the bells and whistles, technology and an arena that seats under 22K. Investment in facilities isn’t the issue.

 

[OrangeBeachVol]

In today's college sports world the NIL is also a big factor. LV's must have some amount of NIL $, hence Jackson's return this year, but do they have enough to get the really elite players? The name brand alone does not work anymore. Understand FB probably gets most of it and they are the money making sport but hope some NIL $ are being spread around to women's sports.

Also agree with other posters an offense scheme change is needed.

 

[DarkPhoenix]

In today's college sports world the NIL is also a big factor. LV's must have some amount of NIL $, hence Jackson's return this year, but do they have enough to get the really elite players? The name brand alone does not work anymore. Understand FB probably gets most of it and they are the money making sport but hope some NIL $ are being spread around to women's sports.

Also agree with other posters an offense scheme change is needed.

If a truly #1 prospect comes here, the NiL deals will follow them, if a player of great and and marketable the companies will give them NiL deals, it has nothing to do with the school u choose.

 

[glv98]

but Elzy and Simmons are good young up and coming coaches.

Yikes. Simmons maybe, but much as I love Kyra, she's KJH age and in the hottest of hot seats. Shaky take here.

Much of the investments in facilities was during our championship era, and if capital investments in your program dosen't whole water, why would any program let alone UT, upgrade their facilities. Elite programs know and understand that when a recruit visits their campus facilities matter

You are aware they just went in partnership with Food City to upgrade facilities, right? Thus the stupid long new name for the Tommy Bowl. Existing facilities are often listed by portal recruits, including RJ, as a major part of thier decision. Facilities ain't it.

In today's college sports world the NIL is also a big factor. LV's must have some amount of NIL $, hence Jackson's return this year, but do they have enough to get the really elite players? The name brand alone does not work anymore. Understand FB probably gets most of it and they are the money making sport but hope some NIL $ are being spread around to women's sports.

Also agree with other posters an offense scheme change is needed.

If a truly #1 prospect comes here, the NiL deals will follow them, if a player of great and and marketable the companies will give them NiL deals, it has nothing to do with the school u choose.

Once again we're conflating NIL with the upfront sign on bonus. My understanding is the initial lump sum is where we're falling behind, with donors hesitant to sink a chunk into an unproven hs prospect, no matter how highly rated. More willing to pony up for a proven portal signee, thus our success there. But this has nothing to do w NIL.

It's true actual NIL opportunities are probably going to happen for good, marketable players. But we have to get them here first, and apparently the pay for play fee is our problem.

 

[Coach Jumper]

Limited Athleticism = Larry Bird - slow, can't jump but he was a player.

Name another, I can Name a dozen super athletes who are also great basketball players including michael lebron kobe,,

 

[Rooster1]

Yikes. Simmons maybe, but much as I love Kyra, she's KJH age and in the hottest of hot seats. Shaky take here.

You are aware they just went in partnership with Food City to upgrade facilities, right? Thus the stupid long new name for the Tommy Bowl. Existing facilities are often listed by portal recruits, including RJ, as a major part of thier decision. Facilities ain't it.



Once again we're conflating NIL with the upfront sign on bonus. My understanding is the initial lump sum is where we're falling behind, with donors hesitant to sink a chunk into an unproven hs prospect, no matter how highly rated. More willing to pony up for a proven portal signee, thus our success there. But this has nothing to do w NIL.

It's true actual NIL opportunities are probably going to happen for good, marketable players. But we have to get them here first, and apparently the pay for play fee is our problem.

I have said the same thing previously...many people keep confusing NIL with booster club/collectives upfront "sign on" bonuses. I certainly do not have any inside information on how much money is being offered and or paid upfront to any WBB recruits from any school but I believe many of the rumors that surface from time to time are exaggerated and or false. There are probably some schools with the type of booster/collective funds at their disposal to make some waves, we all know which schools have the wealthy donor bases. Overall however, if you look at the top 100 recruits and where they are signing you will see the talent is being spread around to many schools, and although some schools are doing very well overall at collecting talent that has always been the case, even before NIL and "pay to sign" deals surfaced. Some coaching staffs/programs are great at attracting top talent and some are not.

 

[Majors]

I have said the same thing previously...many people keep confusing NIL with booster club/collectives upfront "sign on" bonuses. I certainly do not have any inside information on how much money is being offered and or paid upfront to any WBB recruits from any school but I believe many of the rumors that surface from time to time are exaggerated and or false. There are probably some schools with the type of booster/collective funds at their disposal to make some waves, we all know which schools have the wealthy donor bases. Overall however, if you look at the top 100 recruits and where they are signing you will see the talent is being spread around to many schools, and although some schools are doing very well overall at collecting talent that has always been the case, even before NIL and "pay to sign" deals surfaced. Some coaching staffs/programs are great at attracting top talent and some are not.

Dawn being one. Shane Beamer isn’t great and pleads for more NIL.

 

[#1LVLS MAN 4 LIFE]

Yikes. Simmons maybe, but much as I love Kyra, she's KJH age and in the hottest of hot seats. Shaky take here.

You are aware they just went in partnership with Food City to upgrade facilities, right? Thus the stupid long new name for the Tommy Bowl. Existing facilities are often listed by portal recruits, including RJ, as a major part of thier decision. Facilities ain't it.



Once again we're conflating NIL with the upfront sign on bonus. My understanding is the initial lump sum is where we're falling behind, with donors hesitant to sink a chunk into an unproven hs prospect, no matter how highly rated. More willing to pony up for a proven portal signee, thus our success there. But this has nothing to do w NIL.

It's true actual NIL opportunities are probably going to happen for good, marketable players. But we have to get them here first, and apparently the pay for play fee is our problem.

 

[#1LVLS MAN 4 LIFE]

You are right, facilities are not it, but they are a part of the equation as I stated. I was really referring to a committed investment in women's basketball with goal of achieving a championship level. Yes, Elzy's seat maybe hot, but to her credit she does have an SEC title, and she's still young in her role as a HC, and like everyone else, the overall coaching success of all former LVL's coaching is still yet to be determined. One good, bad, or mediocre coaching stinct may provide an insight of a coach's abilty at that time in their coaching career, but situations and coach's can and do change.

 

[#1LVLS MAN 4 LIFE]

That’s not accurate. Tennessee has had major investments into the program with the Pratt Pavilion. A new state of the art locker room that was upgraded recently.

“In 2018, an extensive facelift took place to the existing men's and women's basketball locker-room space along the arena's north corridor on event level. Both locker rooms were enlarged and modernized with state-of-the-art technological and aesthetic enhancements.”

Tennessee has all the bells and whistles, technology and an arena that seats under 22K. Investment in facilities isn’t the issue.

Pershaps i'm not providing enough clarity. One, their were facility upgrades in our championship era, and it expected that a university would upgrade their facilities in subsequent years, this should be a matter of course, but that was not my whole statement. Facilites are a part of the equation, not the end all be all. If we want to win another national championship, which is what this post is about, I am only questioning whether or not we are making a championship level of commitment when it comes to our investment in women's basketball- on a multitude of fronts.

 

[Majors]

Pershaps i'm not providing enough clarity. One, their were facility upgrades in our championship era, and it expected that a university would upgrade their facilities in subsequent years, this should be a matter of course, but that was not my whole statement. Facilites are a part of the equation, not the end all be all. If we want to win another national championship, which is what this post is about, I am only questioning whether or not we are making a championship level of commitment when it comes to our investment in women's basketball- on a multitude of fronts.

Facilities are on par or better than teams we are chasing. That’s investment. If you want to say we hired lower than the standard, that’s fair considering the resume.

 

[NeedOrange]

Name another, I can Name a dozen super athletes who are also great basketball players including michael lebron kobe,,

You said, "Give me an athlete who wants to learn my sport over a basketball player with limited athleticism,,,,,EVERY TIME !!" with capital letters and double exclamation marks. Now you say "name another" Consistency is kind of important. "Coach"

 

[knoxvol52]

Limited Athleticism = Larry Bird - slow, can't jump but he was a player.

Luka Doncic...

 

[#1LVLS MAN 4 LIFE]

Facilities are on par or better than teams we are chasing. That’s investment. If you want to say we hired lower than the standard, that’s fair considering the resume.

If facilities were the only standard or metric, then we should have several more national championships. However, if you are measureing which university has the best facilities for women's basketball, we would problaby be among the top, if not the top, but would perfer the we hoist a NC trophy and new championship banner.

 

[madtownvol]

Luka Doncic...

Steve Nash (back in the day) and Nikola Jokic fit the bill. Some might include Steph Curry who has limited vertical.

With all these names, including Bird and Doncic, I think it is is misleading to say that they are not athletic-- which reduces athleticism to jumping ability and quickness.

Athleticism is multi-faceted. Size and strength are also factors (Jokic and Doncic are A+ on that dimension), balance and body control are others -- Steve Nash was contortionist crossed with a tight rope walker crossed with ballet dancer.

Then you have visual acuity and reaction time -the ability to see angles and respond faster than others -- Larry Bird and Steph Curry excelled here.

Nobody plays at the levels of these superstars without having athletic ability.

 

[Coach Jumper]

You said, "Give me an athlete who wants to learn my sport over a basketball player with limited athleticism,,,,,EVERY TIME !!" with capital letters and double exclamation marks. Now you say "name another" Consistency is kind of important. "Coach"

Name another slow footed legend like larry bird is what I meant

 

[knoxvol52]

Steve Nash (back in the day) and Nikola Jokic fit the bill. Some might include Steph Curry who has limited vertical.

With all these names, including Bird and Doncic, I think it is is misleading to say that they are not athletic-- which reduces athleticism to jumping ability and quickness.

Athleticism is multi-faceted. Size and strength are also factors (Jokic and Doncic are A+ on that dimension), balance and body control are others -- Steve Nash was contortionist crossed with a tight rope walker crossed with ballet dancer.

Then you have visual acuity and reaction time -the ability to see angles and respond faster than others -- Larry Bird and Steph Curry excelled here.

Nobody plays at the levels of these superstars without having athletic ability.

Doncic and Jokic are typical European Players ....take their time to develop the plays....not saying their not athletic at all.... European players are more lethargic..in their approach..

Patience is definitely a virtue to them...Giannis is just a "freak" same as Wenby the rookie sensation from France...