Will Tennessee ever return to national contender status?

[dapeak]

You teaching young ladies, and young men, that it's ok for Mom to be the boss and Dad to work for her is an awesome thing.

Try to keep up. These wife/hubby coaching combos are fairly common and quite successful across WBB.

Yeah… no. It wreaks of Mommy NEEDS Daddy in order to be successful and dad rides the coattails of her success because he can’t do it on his own and due to being his wife; you gotta allow it for his ego.

 

[dapeak]

For the record, Bryan Tatum was not a s&c coach at mizzou state. We was with her at NC state and was a s&c coach for auburn football.

And I remain unimpressed.

 

[creekdipper]

Yeah but the text said “his head”…..why would LV fans be after Wes’s head?

For the haircut, obviously.

 

[River67]

The Lady Vols under Coach Harper will not reach the status from the Summit days. She has not been successful in recruiting top players out of the HoopsGurlz top 100. The last and only one out of the last couple of years stayed about two years and was never played more than two or three minutes per game and finally left the team to go elsewhere. Harper needs to put her husband in an administrative position and hire a top notch assistant coach such as Catchings that can recruit and contribute. Harper had done nothing to correct the high rate of turnovers as remember a season where there were 3 games of over 25 turnovers per game....want to correct turnovers simply apply the Coach Barnes method...in practice if a turnover is made the player must run from the floor all the way to the top of the arena and back....that stops turnovers. I Harper is permitted to remain, we are in for a run of seasons as a middle of the pack team in the conference. Either hire Parker or the current coach at Duke as her replacement.

Kara’s ACC win percentage is 57 and she ran off 5 players last season including 2 starters. Kellie’s SEC win percentage is 71. I would hardly think that’s an upgrade. Kara can bring them in, but runs them off as soon as she gets them. I agree that recruiting has to get better, but Kara Lawson ain’t it

 

[Majors]

I would love to see what kind of hire a real AD like Danny White would make, unfettered by the LV cult...

Anyone against this is part of the problem. “Fulmer said athletic department administrators Angie Boyd-Keck, Donna Thomas and Tara Brooks told him the importance of hiring someone with a connection to the program.”

 

[Coach Jumper]

Kara’s ACC win percentage is 57 and she ran off 5 players last season including 2 starters. Kellie’s SEC win percentage is 71. I would hardly think that’s an upgrade. Kara can bring them in, but runs them off as soon as she gets them. I agree that recruiting has to get better, but Kara Lawson ain’t it

agree

 

[Knoxvol14]

Isn't Kellie over a million now. 1.1 million I read after the deal back in May. That's not including what her husband makes which is icing on the cake.... Between the two they make pretty good.

Their pay is pretty in line with the program's performance since she's been here. I believe she's fourth or fifth highest paid in the league, so it's not like we are paying her big money. We are paying in line with ehay her performance has been.

 

[Majors]

Have you been to a practice? She definitely makes the girls run the floor after mistakes.

Well that’s concerning considering our turnovers are still higher per game than last year so far.

 

[glv98]

Yeah… no. It wreaks of Mommy NEEDS Daddy in order to be successful and dad rides the coattails of her success because he can’t do it on his own and due to being his wife; you gotta allow it for his ego.

Kind of a rorshach test isn't it? You got the negative take, the one that supports your agenda, on lockdown. I'll stay with the positive role modeling that women can be boss and men can work under them.

Well that’s concerning considering our turnovers are still higher per game than last year so far.

It shows that punishment for an involuntary act doesn't work. Teaching and drills > punishment for turnovers, unless you think they are committing t.o.s on purpose.

 

[Majors]

It shows that punishment for an involuntary act doesn't work. Teaching and drills > punishment for turnovers, unless you think they are committing t.o.s on purpose.

Agree with that to an extent. Last season RJ was benched for “practice”…if playing time is earned in practice then we should have a balance of cardio and minutes cut.

 

[NeedOrange]

I don't know that Kara is the answer either. She's not made it out of the 2nd round of the tourney. Fans would call for her head too.

I don't think there is a D1 coach, except Dawn that is performing at the level demanded by LV fans. That level is consistent SEC championships, consistent final fours and regular natty's. Vic hasn't done it even with the whole state of Texas as his candy store. Wes, Kara, Jeff, Mulkey have some occasional glitter on their resumes but in reality their records will not satisfy. Unless you want to give Dawn an football level contract, she's not going to move. The only thing to do is find the next Dawn/Geno. Berube has done it at D3. I like Pickens in D2. Any AD who would reach to entrust the Lady Vol legacy to a 'minor league' head coach has two options; Be right or be gone. Sometimes our own expectations lead us into a trap.

 

[#1LVLS MAN 4 LIFE]

Some truths are hard to face, the fact that our program has been underperforming compared to its historical standards and comparable programs is grossly obvious. However, the why of this has multiple reasons. (1). Pat's illness and death notwithstanding, the program never truly responded to the threat Uconn posed by totally overhauling and modernizing it's offensive and defensive system and philosophy. And why would you when it got you 8 national championship, but scoring in 3s will always beat scoring in 2s. (2). More often than not, in my opinion, we have recruited more athleticism than elite skill set. Recruiting student-athletes with an elite skill set is a force multipliaer, think Candace Parker. (3). Our strength and conditioning and skill deveopment program is not elite. The rash of injuries over the Warlick years, and our physical inability to match up to comparable programs, ie. SC, LSU, Standford, and UConn bears this out. We have not consistenly shown the ability to turn a good player into a great player. (4). As a univeristy, UT must be committed to making major capital investment in our program. Significant investment tell coaches, atheletes, and parents that you care and that you are serious. (5). Coaching. It is a UT tradition to hire inside the family, so which of the former LVL coaching at the power 5 level should we go with? Stick with KJH with the hope that this will be the year we take a significant forward, or go with KL who is the popular choice, although Duke is not there yet. Do you go with Kara Elzy, who out of everyone has won an SEC championship and beat SC, but who is struggling with a young Kentucky team. Or do we go with Alex Simmons who has Memphis trending up, or Bridget Gordon who's much less talented HBCU team played well against us. Suggested coaches outside the family to consider: Joni Tayor, Teri Moren, or Meagan Duffy, Dawn Plitzuweit, or anyone you care to throw in the mix. The optimist in me believes we will win another championship, but it will later than sooner if our current reality persists.​

 

[Coach Jumper]

(2). More often than not, in my opinion, we have recruited more athleticism than elite skill set. Recruiting student-athletes with an elite skill set is a force multipliaer, think Candace Parker.​

A great coach can make a great athlete (who wants to do so) into a great basketball player,,,however a great coach cannot make a great basketball player into a great athlete...Give me an athlete who wants to learn my sport over a basketball player with limited athleticism,,,,,EVERY TIME !!!

(3). Our strength and conditioning and skill deveopment program is not elite. The rash of injuries over the Warlick years, and our physical inability to match up to comparable programs, ie. SC, LSU, Standford, and UConn bears this out. We have not consistenly shown the ability to turn a good player into a great player.​

Why?

(5). Coaching.​

The reason Holly failed is that she put "yes men" and similar personalities around her...When she did get a different personality (Alpha) around her, she drove them away....Maybe,,,,

 

[superfly]

The short answer...yes....the long answer....when the right coach gets the right players. Is that Kellie ? I think she is a good coach and a good recruiter but Tennessee is a great program that should have a great coach and a great recruiter. I am not saying that Kellie can not be that coach but she is not that coach now. If Tennessee gets the right coach (it could still be Kellie) then they will be a huge force moving forward. The fan base is strong and the facilities are there. There is no reason that Tennessee should not be in the national championship conversation every year.

 

[Coach Jumper]

The short answer...yes....the long answer....when the right coach gets the right players. Is that Kellie ? I think she is a good coach and a good recruiter but Tennessee is a great program that should have a great coach and a great recruiter. I am not saying that Kellie can not be that coach but she is not that coach now. If Tennessee gets the right coach (it could still be Kellie) then they will be a huge force moving forward. The fan base is strong and the facilities are there. There is no reason that Tennessee should not be in the national championship conversation every year.

yes

 

[#1LVLS MAN 4 LIFE]

A great coach can make a great athlete (who wants to do so) into a great basketball player,,,however a great coach cannot make a great basketball player into a great athlete...Give me an athlete who wants to learn my sport over a basketball player with limited athleticism,,,,,EVERY TIME !!!



Why?


The reason Holly failed is that she put "yes men" and similar personalities around her...When she did get a different personality (Alpha) around her, she drove them away....Maybe,,,,

There are limited number of great coaches in various sports, a great coach pulls, influences, and guides, they do not make truly great athletes, those intangibles are inherent awaiting to be born and nurtured under the right tutelage. Tamika Catchings potential for greatness was already there before she came to Tennessee, but the enless hours of beating on her skill set and basketball craft under Pat's tutelage unlocked the door to her person greatness Athleticism by itself is not enough, but skill mastery with athleticism will unlock the door to indiviual greatness. As to strength and conditioning, you cannot dominate let alone compete at a truly high level unless your strength and conditioning are elite . Coach Summitt's teams were infamous for running gate 10 and the hill, Coach Conradt's teams for their track workouts, and Coach Auriemma's teams for their stressed induced pratices. Without foundational strength, and elite conditioning the body and one's mental capacity (will) never reaches its true apex. Regarding Coach Warlick, I agree with your assessment, a team tends to take on the personality traits of their head coach, but in today's world Alpha's are hard to come by.​

 

[Coach Jumper]

There are limited number of great coaches in various sports, a great coach pulls, influences, and guides, they do not make truly great athletes, those intangibles are inherent awaiting to be born and nurtured under the right tutelage. Tamika Catchings potential for greatness was already there before she came to Tennessee, but the enless hours of beating on her skill set and basketball craft under Pat's tutelage unlocked the door to her person greatness Athleticism by itself is not enough, but skill mastery with athleticism will unlock the door to indiviual greatness. As to strength and conditioning, you cannot dominate let alone compete at a truly high level unless your strength and conditioning are elite . Coach Summitt's teams were infamous for running gate 10 and the hill, Coach Conradt's teams for their track workouts, and Coach Auriemma's teams for their stressed induced pratices. Without foundational strength, and elite conditioning the body and one's mental capacity (will) never reaches its true apex. Regarding Coach Warlick, I agree with your assessment, a team tends to take on the personality traits of their head coach, but in today's world Alpha's are hard to come by.​

That's why you go out and find one
Coaches hire what they're not great at
I'm not a "be your friend, compliment you endlessly" coach,,,so I would have to hire one
But I am 100% Alpha

An Alpha athlete will not follow a Beta coach without an Alpha influencing them to do so
As long as this team has Alpha athletes (I count 7) and no Alpha coach,,,the Alphas will not perform to expectations consistently.
Every now and then they will go out and put up great numbers
But if those numbers aren't "expected",,,they will happen only when the Alpha athlete wants them to happen
Reason...You can not beg/ask an Alpha for their best,,,they have to want to give you their best out of respect!

And if you try to intimidate an Alpha,,,you better be able to back it up
When Warlick reprimanded her players in-game they walked away almost amused bc they knew she was weak
Re Kellie,,,I have yet to see her reprimand in-game and right now, I don't expect to

 

[LasVegasBill23]

Anyone against this is part of the problem. “Fulmer said athletic department administrators Angie Boyd-Keck, Donna Thomas and Tara Brooks told him the importance of hiring someone with a connection to the program.”

Well that is on us for adhering to this notion... if you have a blue chip program, care about it, and want to maintain that status, then you conduct an official nationwide search. Holly was a terrible choice though i know she still has loyalists on this forum. To me anyway, it was painfully obvious from the start that - though she could recruit - she was unable to carry out the duties which make an able head coach. The real crime with the Holly hire was that someone (Fulmer?) thought that staying on the Holly bus for 7 years made sense. With that indolence we really let other programs pass us by it was and still is sad to witness

 

[madtownvol]

Some truths are hard to face, the fact that our program has been underperforming compared to its historical standards and comparable programs is grossly obvious. However, the why of this has multiple reasons. (1). Pat's illness and death notwithstanding, the program never truly responded to the threat Uconn posed by totally overhauling and modernizing it's offensive and defensive system and philosophy. And why would you when it got you 8 national championship, but scoring in 3s will always beat scoring in 2s. (2). More often than not, in my opinion, we have recruited more athleticism than elite skill set. Recruiting student-athletes with an elite skill set is a force multipliaer, think Candace Parker. (3). Our strength and conditioning and skill deveopment program is not elite. The rash of injuries over the Warlick years, and our physical inability to match up to comparable programs, ie. SC, LSU, Standford, and UConn bears this out. We have not consistenly shown the ability to turn a good player into a great player. (4). As a univeristy, UT must be committed to making major capital investment in our program. Significant investment tell coaches, atheletes, and parents that you care and that you are serious. (5). Coaching. It is a UT tradition to hire inside the family, so which of the former LVL coaching at the power 5 level should we go with? Stick with KJH with the hope that this will be the year we take a significant forward, or go with KL who is the popular choice, although Duke is not there yet. Do you go with Kara Elzy, who out of everyone has won an SEC championship and beat SC, but who is struggling with a young Kentucky team. Or do we go with Alex Simmons who has Memphis trending up, or Bridget Gordon who's much less talented HBCU team played well against us. Suggested coaches outside the family to consider: Joni Tayor, Teri Moren, or Meagan Duffy, Dawn Plitzuweit, or anyone you care to throw in the mix. The optimist in me believes we will win another championship, but it will later than sooner if our current reality persists.​

Pat was incensed about Maya Moore recruiting process because she realized a generational player like that is the difference between a NC and also ran.

Having said that, the record shows that Geno did surpass Pat and her illness insured she would not catch up.

I don't think the investment thing holds water. The LVs have great practice and training facilities and no shortage of staff. It is true that once the athletic departments were combined, Tennessee women;s athletics lost a little glitter- but I don't think that is the major issue.

The flipside is that OTHER programs have upped their investments and emphasis on women's basketball and there is a much larger talent pool so that lesser known teams can put a reasonably talented squad on the floor.

It just not feasible for the LVs to regain the relative $ advantages they once had over other programs back in the 1990's and 2000s. No AD would make that kind of arms race investment in women;s basketball.

Kellie keeping the LVs competitive in the SEC and making the Sweet 16s is being treated as a complete failure but that is completely unrealistic assessment. I promise you that swapping Kellie for Kyra Elzy or Alex Simmons is not the quicker path to an NC.

 

[Coach Jumper]

It just not feasible for the LVs to regain the relative $ advantages they once had over other programs back in the 1990's and 2000s.

Tell that to Geno, Dawn, Kim...they didn't get the memo

 

[madtownvol]

Tell that to Geno, Dawn, Kim...they didn't get the memo

Those are the three of the four iconic coaches, along with Tara, left in the game (though Geno's luster seems to be fading a bit).

Their legacy effect is huge but that is a different topic than outspending other programs by the same % amount of $, as did Tennessee vis a vis other programs in the 1990s.

Hint, Tennessee made significant investments in the LVs, as the gem of their women's athletic program with an independent AD Gloria Ray, whereas most other programs did just enough to meet Title IX requirements.

 

[madtownvol]

Yeah… no. It wreaks of Mommy NEEDS Daddy in order to be successful and dad rides the coattails of her success because he can’t do it on his own and due to being his wife; you gotta allow it for his ego.

The 1950's called. It wants its retrograde gender ideology back. I guess the idea of marriage as a partnership never occurred to you or that this work-life arrangement might be the best way for Kellie and Jon to have coaching careers and raise their kids.

 

[SATXVolFan82]

The short answer...yes....the long answer....when the right coach gets the right players. Is that Kellie ? I think she is a good coach and a good recruiter but Tennessee is a great program that should have a great coach and a great recruiter. I am not saying that Kellie can not be that coach but she is not that coach now. If Tennessee gets the right coach (it could still be Kellie) then they will be a huge force moving forward. The fan base is strong and the facilities are there. There is no reason that Tennessee should not be in the national championship conversation every year.

I co-sign this statement.

 

[lfvol]

Seems as if sweet sixteen is the new standard of success on the board and perhaps in administration even though it is a low bar.

 

[FormerLadyVolFan]

All good points and I will add another VERY important factor that gets dismissed by those whose agenda it doesn't fit -

Tennessee is middle of the pack in NIL money. Until we figure out a way to catch up with the programs that are outspending us, the results ceiling is going to remain lower than what many think should be accomplished.

Pat was incensed about Maya Moore because she realized a generational player like that is the difference between a NC and also ran.

Having said that, the record shows that Geno did surpass Pat and her illness insured she would not catch up.

I don't think the investment thing holds water. The LVs have great practice and training facilities and no shortage of staff. It is true that once the athletic departments were combined, Tennessee women;s athletics lost a little glitter- but I don't think that is the major issue.

The flipside is that OTHER programs have upped their investments and emphasis on women's basketball and there is a much larger talent pool so that lesser known can put a reasonably talented squad on the floor.

It just not feasible for the LVs to regain the relative $ advantages they once had over other programs back in the 1990's and 2000s. No AD would make that kind of arms race investment in women;s basketball.

Kellie keeping the LVs competitive in the SEC and making the Sweet 16s is being treated as a complete failure but that is completely unrealistic assessment. I promise you that swapping Kellie for Kyra Elzy or Alex Simmons is not the quicker path to an NC.