Wow, Paul Krugman showing why he got that Nobel Prize in Economics

#26
#26
FLVOL_79 said:
A healthy economy has people spending all of their disposable income and everyone going balls deep into credit debt. A bad economy would see people not spending money but saving. It's a catch 22..save money or spend it..you hear everyone say save for retirement but then you hear everyone say we need a good economy so consumer spending has to go up.

If you are lucky you can do both but that depends on either your income or frugality.


Also allowing the poorest of poor to keep immigrating to the USA does nothing but hurt the economy. We should adopt some European countries standards on immigration (assign education requirements).
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WTF? How does it hurt the economy?
 
#28
#28
tim said:
Really?
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So we should close our borders to poor people? Never mind that they come here the same way most of our ancestors did. This country is apparently full of self-centered, greedy little ****ers who must have forgotten where they came from.
 
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#29
#29
GoBigOrangeUT said:
So we should close our borders to poor people? Never mind that they come here the same way most of our ancestors did. This country is apparently full of self-centered, greedy little ****ers who must have forgotten where they came from.
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Let's go back to the way our ancestors did everything.

I game.
 
#31
#31
GoBigOrangeUT said:
So we should close our borders to poor people? Never mind that they come here the same way most of our ancestors did. This country is apparently full of self-centered, greedy little ****ers who must have forgotten where they came from.
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Hmmmm... I thought a significant number of us came in chains packed on slave ships. So yeah, I guess we have forgotten where we came from.
 
#34
#34
n_huffhines said:
Cheap labor means many goods and services we buy are more affordable. On a macro scale this makes a huge and positive impact.

So please explain to me your position.
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But when we ran out of jobs for unskilled labor, guess who pays their food stamps?
 
#35
#35
Vol8188 said:
But when we ran out of jobs for unskilled labor, guess who pays their food stamps?
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Is this this going to happen? So you're saying they're not hurting the economy now, but will in the future?

There is research that suggests because many immigrants do not collect tax returns (because they are illegal) that they actually are a net positive in respect to government deficits. Even if they were a burden on government spending, that wouldn't have a lot to do with problems in our economy (GDP, unemployment, growth, etc). Our government spending is out of control with or without them.
 
#36
#36
n_huffhines said:
Is this this going to happen? So you're saying they're not hurting the economy now, but will in the future?

There is research that suggests because many immigrants do not collect tax returns (because they are illegal) that they actually are a net positive in respect to government deficits. Even if they were a burden on government spending, that wouldn't have a lot to do with problems in our economy (GDP, unemployment, growth, etc). Our government spending is out of control with or without them.
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You truly believe that unlimited immigration from unskilled workers will not hurt unemployment rates?

And of course I think it's hurting the economy now. We have more unskilled workers than we have jobs. And 100s (maybe 1000s) of unskilled workers are coming to our country daily and adding to that deficit.
 
#37
#37
n_huffhines said:
Is this this going to happen? So you're saying they're not hurting the economy now, but will in the future?

There is research that suggests because many immigrants do not collect tax returns (because they are illegal) that they actually are a net positive in respect to government deficits. Even if they were a burden on government spending, that wouldn't have a lot to do with problems in our economy (GDP, unemployment, growth, etc). Our government spending is out of control with or without them.
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Seriously? More people, less jobs...?
 
#38
#38
Vol8188 said:
You truly believe that unlimited immigration from unskilled workers will not hurt unemployment rates?

And of course I think it's hurting the economy now. We have more unskilled workers than we have jobs. And 100s (maybe 1000s) of unskilled workers are coming to our country daily and adding to that deficit.
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It would most likely create short term growing pains, but lowering the cost of inputs undoubtedly results in economic progress in the long run.
 
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#39
#39
Orange_Crush said:
Seriously? More people, less jobs...?
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Well, we've had tens of millions of immigrants in the last few decades and the unemployment rate tends to stay about the same. Workforce participation is down right now, but that doesn't have anything to do with immigration, IMO.
 
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#40
#40
n_huffhines said:
Well, we've had tens of millions of immigrants in the last few decades and the unemployment rate tends to stay about the same. Workforce participation is down right now, but that doesn't have anything to do with immigration, IMO.
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I suspect the jobs illegal immigrants are working aren't the jobs that people will leave the unemployment ranks for. Why wash dishes or dig a ditch when you can make more sitting at home collecting a check? It's sad, but it's the reality. I agree more illegal immigrants won't necessarily have much of an affect on unemployment numbers.
 
#41
#41
One other thing....a lot of immigrants are entrepreneurs who create their own jobs and jobs for others.
 
#42
#42
n_huffhines said:
One other thing....a lot of immigrants are entrepreneurs who create their own jobs and jobs for others.
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Are they exporting anything? If not, I have hard time seeing how a net surplus in jobs is being created by another lawn service.
 
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#43
#43
Vol8188 said:
Are they exporting anything? If not, I have hard time seeing how a net surplus in jobs is being created by another lawn service.
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In the case of service industries it may not result in a net surplus in jobs, but it still results in a net positive to the economy.

Mr. Smith can't afford Johnson's Landscaping Service, but he can afford Pedro's. Now Mr. Smith is freed up on Saturdays to work on a side business. Or maybe Mr. Smith was spending beyond his means to pay for Johnson's service, and makes the switch. With the savings he is able to add to his kid's college fund or take them to Disney World. Bottom line is it raised his standard of living. On a macro scale this has a large benefit.

This is economic progress. In some cases Johnson may go out of business, but in a lot of cases he will just tailor his services to wealthier people who pay for all the bells and whistles. If he does go out of business, he will likely face temporary economic woes, but in the long run he will find his niche where he can compete. Protecting Mr. Johnson's business by banning immigrants is like protecting typewriter manufacturing jobs by banning computers. It's not good for economic progress.
 
#44
#44
GoBigOrangeUT said:
So we should close our borders to poor people? Never mind that they come here the same way most of our ancestors did. This country is apparently full of self-centered, greedy little ****ers who must have forgotten where they came from.
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When my grandfather immigrated from Italy in the early 1900's with only the clothes on his back the only thing he got from the United States was a shower and his head shaved. After that it was totally up to him whether he lived or died. If you liberals would agree to end all welfare programs we'll agree to open our borders. Deal?
 
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#45
#45
Sandvol said:
When my grandfather immigrated from Italy in the early 1900's with only the clothes on his back the only thing he got from the United States was a shower and his head shaved. After that it was totally up to him whether he lived or died. If you liberals would agree to end all welfare programs we'll agree to open our borders. Deal?
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They'd lose their voting base ...
 
#46
#46
Sandvol said:
When my grandfather immigrated from Italy in the early 1900's with only the clothes on his back the only thing he got from the United States was a shower and his head shaved. After that it was totally up to him whether he lived or died. If you liberals would agree to end all welfare programs we'll agree to open our borders. Deal?
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So we should eliminate all welfare programs? Completely forget about those who truly need it and don't abuse it?
 
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#50
#50
GoBigOrangeUT said:
So we should eliminate all welfare programs? Completely forget about those who truly need it and don't abuse it?
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Back to this....if we're talking about helping people and doing good in the world, don't you think allowing immigrants to come here would accomplish more good than our welfare programs are doing (if we're talking about one or the other)?
 
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